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This is a very easy question to answer.The one that wins, is simply the one that has the feats that prove the character can actually do what is claimed he can do.When this question is made Superman fans and Goku fans are never aiming for the same goal.— A well knowledgeable Superman fan, can write an essay filled with thousands upon thousands of visual evidence, of the character doing what the person claims he can do.Yes, the best feats take precedence, but then again DB fans can't say they do it any different.— A well knowledgeable Goku fan, will write you a story. Supported by very little to even nothing.Where is it written that just because in Super Saiyan Goku has 50 times more Ki, that that makes him 50 times stronger and faster? All I see is people assume he is but they can't prove it based on both Manga and Anime.Also there's a huge dual criteria in the DB fanbase.A DB character says something about itself or about another character… To the DB fan that is 100% undeniable truth.A DC Comics character says something about itself or about another character… To the DB fan because they actually have over 80 years of comics, they randomly pick something else completely out of context, and then they say that because that happened then everything is debunked.They don't care or even know when those things happened or even how. The main point is always to make it so every claim made in DB that suits them is 100% truth, while with DC Comics them the claim can't be truth.They are even the first ones to dismiss what is shown.Let me give you a very simple examples of complete DB denial by almost every DB fan. Every one of these gifs proves something power wise about DB characters.But what they show is something they will never admit and in a clear case of Cognitive Dissonance they'll deny what is being shown even if they had gun pointed to their heads.The first gif shows that when Tien uses the solar flare technique that Goku doesn't move faster than light.And what I've seen DB fans say is that the Manga proves that Goku moved faster than light.To which I show them this… And ask them how they measure speed from panel to panel without any context or information whatsoever.To which then you're given a full range of excuses.The top ones are:That “Toriyama meant it to represent faster than light movement” when Toriyama never said anything in that regard. So they put words in the authors mouth.That “We can clearly see in the pages that Goku moves faster than light” even though you can't see movement in a freaking page. But above all because nothing is said to support the faster than light movement.So yes. In an absolutely perfect world both characters would have enough feats so each fanbase could actually make their fight anywhere even possible.But this isn't that world.Superman has over 80 years of feats.Goku doesn't even has 30.But here's another example…When the Grand Priest builds the arena he simply says that the arena was made of the strongest material in any universe.That however means absolutely nothing.To someone that has never known anything but wood and rock weapons then wood and rocks are the strongest thing that exists. Until someone else comes along with a metal weapon that makes the wood and rock seems like paper.That is why writers in DC at least try to give their readers, the must needed context.So here we are presented with Kerenthium. A metal made from Inversed Black Holes (aka White Holes) that can be used to move stars from one galaxy to another.The villain even states that the metal is unbreakable. Only to see Superman breaking it.A metal he breaks time and time again. Thousands of times.Now if you know the minimal mass a star has to have, you can calculate an approximate minimal value of the durability of that metal. Although obviously you can't calculate its max durability value.But at least you're given something. Something to work with. To help support claims made about Superman strength.In DB we got this…Even those suits Whis makes Goku and Vegeta wear.I once saw someone claim in a question that the suits weighted hundreds of thousands of tons.Which of course I asked for proof of that. And obviously there is no proof.The person simply made the assumption of what were Goku and Vegeta power level at this point in time and ran with it.And now you begin to understand why Superman fans and Goku fans don't aim for the same thing when answering this conflict.With Superman fans you get the feats, the claims, and even the evidence that gives credibility to those feats and claims.With Goku fans you get at best the assumption of something. Most claims made can't be proven. Worse still you can use DB itself to debunk past claims.So in the end you'll only get two things from these kind of questions:Answers based on something (Superman)Answers based on nothing (Goku)As for the winner…Superman fans know he wins 10/10.Goku fans believe he wins 10/10.2. First off there's a lot of factors in this fight. I'm going to set some ground rules for this fight. Number one Goku doesn't know anything about Superman. Number 2 Superman doesn't know anything about Goku. Since there's multiple versions of Superman and only one version of Goku I'm going to do something different than almost any other answer on Quora. I'm going to combine every version of Superman together except for Cosmic armor Superman and Prime 1 Million Superman. First off let's talk about the powers, abilities, and know how of Superman:FlightSuper sight (Telescopic, Microscopic, Electromagnetic spectrum, X-ray, and Infrared vision)Superhuman agilitySuperHuman reflexes (able to react in an attosecond)Heat visionSuper breathIce breathNigh-invulnerabilityCompletely invulnerable to heat, cold, and the vacuum of spaceDoes not need to eat, drink, or breathTrue immortality (has outlived every living being in all of creation)Super strengthSuper speed (massively faster than light and can phase through objects)8th level intellect along with eidetic memoryMastered Torquasm Vo and Rao Kryptonian martial arts (one is a mental martial arts and the other a physical)Has been personally trained by Batman in martial arts (Batman is a master in every martial art known to man which is over 250 martial arts)If hit hard enough to get damaged his body will automatically use sunlight energy to very, very, very rapidly heal itselfSuper broadcastingSuper hearingOnce morphed himself to look like another alien species (may have something to do with other forms of sunlight energy)Can time travelSuperman vision (only if he absorbs white dwarf star energy rays)With too much exposure to the sun his cells will start cell death and then reconstitute into a pure energy being. (if he becomes a pure energy being than Goku stands no chance)Super hypnotismSpecific field telekinesis (basically it is why he can lift a very heavy object without the piece he's holding completely tearing off)Infinite mass punchSuper flareSuper ventriloquismSuper weavingTelepathy and mind controlMiniature duplicate synthesisAstral projectionSelf-divisionReality alterationSuper sensesHas access to Sword of SupermanSuper staminaWeaknessesMagicKryptoniteNow onto Goku. Phew!!! I will state his various attacks, abilities and forms. Starting with forms first then abilities and finally attacks. Only listing very important attacks (not every version of one attack)FormsKing Kai’s Fist (A.K.A. Kaio-ken)Super Saiyajin 1Super Saiyajin 2Super Saiyajin 3Super Saiyajin GodSuper Saiyajin God Super SaiyajinSuper Saiyajin God Super Saiyajin King Kai’s Fist 1–20True Ultra InstinctAbilitiesInstant transmissionFlightSuper strengthNigh-invulnerableTelepathyMimicryMastery of Ki Manipulation“Second Wind”Regeneration using Godly KiEnergy nullificationSuper speed (massively faster than light)Ki senseSuper sensesZenkai boost4th dimensionalAttacksHakaiKamehamehaSpirit bombDestructo discExplosive waveSolar flareGive me energy! (absorbs energy from the universe from the living and non-living)Energy shieldEnergy landmineAble to give energy as wellHealing (healed a bird and Master Roshi)TelekinesisDragon fistPossible Equipment/TechniqueEvil containment waveWeaknessesStaminaNeeds to eatTo be honest I love both Dragon Ball and Superman pretty equally if not biased a little more towards Superman. I think it would be a very long and drawn out battle eventually ending in a tie with both characters severely worn out and tired. Even if Superman tried to kill Goku a few times he still would “Second Wind” and be alright (yes even if he destroyed his brain once or twice). Goku is the God of all Saiyans and wouldn't be beat so easily. Also I doubt Goku would Hakai Supes. This really all goes down to how much and what kind of solar energy Superman absorbed before the fight and where they are fighting. Also it comes down to how serious the fight is. Does Superman just I.M.P. Goku till he can’t “Second Wind” anymore? Does Goku Hakai Superman? Does Goku get I.M.P. and “Second Wind” himself a zenkai boost into Ultra Instinct? Does he even go Ultra Instinct? Or do they stop fighting halfway through to become friends?Anything Superman does that could potentially kill or annihilate Goku can and will force Goku to “Second Wind”. Which could also throw him into Ultra Instinct.I am leaning more towards Superman simply because he could wait it out till Goku runs out of stamina. Unless Goku goes U.I. of course then, I think I would have to hand it over to GokuBut, if Superman has the Sword of Superman then Superman wins no matter what Goku does. Unless he gets Hakai’d but I doubt Superman would allow that seeing as the omniscience, the sword would give him, would see it coming.Of course Goku could somehow surpass his limits and do some B.S. like Ultra Instinct Super Saiyajin. Because if that happened I would have to requestion myself on who would win. That would be monsterous and Superman without S.O.S. would be so screwed.Of course if Superman gets exposure to a white dwarf star or any other star other than a red giant then his power will exponentially increase. If he has soaked up enough yellow solar energy during the fight his power will exponentially increase as well just not as fast as a white dwarf star. Also Superman can possibly become 5th dimensional. He could also fly Goku to the end of time (Superman has survived the end of time and flew so fast he avoided the entropy waves). He could also wield the Sword of Superman. He could also split himself into 1000’s of himself. Any of these outcomes could mean the end for Goku.Then again Goku could learn and mimic Superman’s powers. Like he could learn how to divide himself as well. He could Hakai Superman. He could possibly learn how to Infinite Mass Punch after having it done to him just once. He could also absorb energy from the universe to further power himself up. If Goku does any or all of this it could mean the end for Superman. It is extremely hard to say who would win or if they could just have a draw.3. For a newer and similar answer, refer to this:Renton Davis's answer to Who would win in a fight using their 2019 versions, Goku or Superman?Just in case it's still not common knowledge: Ignore DeathbattleThey are biased, liars, and shouldn't be seen as anything more than mindless entertainment.Anyway:Rules? Versions?Alright.Dragon Ball Super Manga GokuWhich is reasonably the Canon version of Goku. As I've explained more than once.VSDC Comics Earth 0 Rebirth SupermanFor those unaware, Superman is now a fusion of his Pre and Post Flashpoint self in Rebirth. He explained it to Supergirl and apparently no one remembers he was split in two in order to weaken him. Only Superman, Lois, and Jon remember.Rules:In CharacterStandard Gear and StatsRandom EncounterNeutral Environment and UniverseTo the Death, Incapacitation, Immobilization or SurrenderCurrent Standard Canon VersionsGoku's Advantages:Saiyan physiologyHeals faster than normal humans, presumably.Known to constantly evolve in battle and increase alot in power after recovering from near death experiences. However that no longer seems applicable to Vegeta or Goku.Transformation, Goku can transform into many different forms increasing his power. Besides his great ape form which is no longer something he can do. His current forms in the manga are:Super Saiyan (Noted to actually be a 10 fold boost by the creater of Dragon Ball as explained here: Facts about Super Saiyan)Super Saiyan 2, a more powerful form of SSSuper Saiyan 3, an even more powerful form with an energy drawback causing him to run out of stamina faster than usual.Super Saiyan God or SSG, a significantly more powerful form where he has “God Ki”.Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan AKA Super Saiyan Blue. An even higher form of Super Saiyan God which he has recently Perfected (Not mastered though since it strains him) which can be called PSSB.Ki Manipulation allows him to fly, enhance himself, sense Ki to find and fight those who can't be seen by normal eyes, blast Ki in various ways and perform special techniques such as:Kaio-Ken (KK), which exponentially increases his power but requires focus and strains his body. He has used it up to KKx20 in his base form and used Kaio Ken once in his Perfected Super Saiyan Blue form. It usually strains his body and can only be used sparingly in short bursts.Genki Dama aka The Spirit Bomb, where Goku gathers the energy from his environment like nature and the earth and Ki from individuals to form a giant sphere that he can toss. It apparently won't hurt those who pure and good. It Takes time to charge and can possibly attain Ki from the sun as well. Atleast in his universe.Kamehameha, Goku's signature technique. His best feat with it is when SSG Goku managed to cancel out Beerus' Earth destroying ball, with a Kamehameha but it drained Goku back to base.Instant Transmission, allows Goku to instantly teleport to virtually any location as long as he has a powerful enough ki to lock on to.Can use various other techniques but does so rarely. These include:Destructo DiscSolar FlareBending KamehamehaInstant Transmission + KamehamehaVarious combo strikes with names such as Meteor strike according to games.Has used some sort of telepathy before but never as a weapon.He has also used Hakai/Destruction, which slowly seemingly disintegrates the person he aims it at in close proximity. However this took all of his remaining PSSB energy to perform and left him near powerless afterwards.And Goku has used Ultra Instinct which is a technique where thought and action are one, supposedly making the user able to beat anyone. Goku has completed it but hasn't mastered it and it is shown to wear him out fast. Still when he used it he notably could avoid attacks to his vitals and became completely calm. However It's noted Goku is unable to tap into Ultra Instinct at will and hasn't used it since the tournament of power.His hair also goes silver when using True/Completed Ultra InstinctGoku will kill if necessary but usually just wants to fight to become stronger and would spare someone who could get stronger in order to fight them later.Superman always holds back and will do everything he can not to kill anything or anyone or even injure them any more than necessary. Usually.Superman's Advantages:Kryptonian Physiology:Giving him Superpowers under Earth's Yellow Sun allowing:Super-StrengthSuper-Speed(Nigh) InvulnerabilityX-Ray VisionSuper IntelligenceFlightHeat VisionFreeze BreathAnd he is notably a Combat Master.Plus has Super-SensesSuperman is notably weak to Kryptonite, Anti Solar attacks, Red Solar Energy and magical attacks but is resistant to pretty much everything else.X-Ray Vision lets him see through things besides lead and magic. He can see bones and note how much he has to hold back. He's recently used his X-ray Vision to make sure he doesn't break Hal Jordan's head by punching him and in the past had used it to see that an enemies muscles and bones are superhumanly dense before hitting him.Heat-Vision blasts beams of heat from his eyes using the energy stored in his cells. He is precise and can do various things with them such as:Heat up metals and the ocean. In the past Superman's Heat Vision has matched and overpowered Captain Cold's gun that blasts at Absolute Zero.Affect cells, the brain, and regularly uses it to shave.Etc.Super-SensesHe has Super-Vision and In the past Lois has explained that Superman can Micro Focus his vision to see strands of DNA and a second later Macro Focus his vision to see to the edge of the universe. Recently he has shown he can see into outer space past Venus atleast while on earth.Super-Hearing virtually everything around the world. He's shown he can hear apparently everyone across the world saying monsters.He can also think incredibly fast and speed up senses when necessary. Comparable and superior to Supercomputers.EtcFreeze Breath/Super BreathCan use his breath to freeze enemies and lava among other things.Super-Healing.Under the Yellow Sun Superman heals incredibly fast. Almost instantly depending on the injury and how much sunlight he is exposed too.He is resistant/nigh immune to disease unless its Kryptonian/alien or magical etc.Superman is Insanely Stronger:Goku's strength feats/plausible feats:A notable strength feat is when Base Goku clashes with Final Form Frieza post training and they show to cause a giant crater from thier punches and kicks.Vegeta who is comparable to Goku couldn't even budge the foot of Magetta who is noted to weigh atleast 1000 tons. It's implied Vegeta couldn't lift him no matter the form and Vegeta and Goku are virtually equals.PSSB Goku could catch Super Saiyan Kale's punch and block multiple punches from her as she grew in power until she overcame his guard with a punch, Then Kale grew in power even more. She was however strong enough to (wo)manhandle Golden Freeza before Goku showed up. Still after overpowering PSSB Goku and growing in power, Super Saiyan Kale still grew in power to the point she could kick a giant (Aniliza in the anime) back, and later had to still grow in power even more until she could lift and toss Magetta (1000+ tons) with one hand.Beerus has also casually deflected Super Saiyan 3 Goku's punch and caused him to punch through King Kais small planet. Note King Kais Planet does have 10x earths gravity though and this also seemed to damage Goku's arm.In his Super Saiyan God Form; Goku's punch to Beerus' arm causes a shockwave and shakes an entire cruise ship and after that SSG Goku's and Beerus's punches clashing shows to create a shockwave that seems to shake earth. The shockwaves also make it to the planet of the lord of lords.SSB and PSSB Goku should be significantly stronger than his lesser forms but to an unknown degree as he hasn't shown any better feats than mentioned. SSB Goku has however showed he could easily swat a pipe back at Zamasu to penetrate him. and SSB Vegeta showed he could Axe Handle Goku Black to the ground and cause a big dust cloud. But like i said Goku hasn't shown any strength feats superior to what was already shown.Superman's strength feats/plausible featsNew 52 Superman without sunlight essentially benchpresses the weight of the earth for 5 days and has a drop of sweat. It's also said he can toss the moon out of orbit.Superman before New 52 can split a moon in half with a punch but he is strong enough to stop himself from connecting it.Has hit hard enough to shatter Small Planets. Note Superman has been on the defensive implying he can hit harder too.Claims he is capable of shattering a planet and that if he pounds away at anything, eventually it'd go down. Including Infinity Man. The Infinity Man seems to agree and traps Superman in order to stall him.Recently Superman has shown he can easily punch Bizarro from Htrae to the moon.And seemingly sent a magical monster, that weakens his punches, into space with a punch.Etc. Just in case its not obvious, Superman has lifted and hit with way more strength than Goku has ever seen.Superman Significantly - Insanely FasterSuperman's speed feats/plausible feats includeRecently showing be able to perceive a Nanosecond,a Femtosecond and even an Attosecond.has shown to be able to speed up his senses to keep up with the Flash who mentioned he could react to things under an attosecond in the same comic.Superman has also claimed and shown to be able to go lightspeed and even faster depending on the comic. Usually in space though. For example he recently casually flew through space with his son to a planet in another solar system then later flew to a planet two solar systems away from that planet and then flew back to earth, and it all only took a week.Goku's Speed feats/Plausible feats:Goku's best feats in speed are moving faster than can be seen by certain eyes and has been able to since he was around a teen/young adult.Super Saiyan Gotenks who should be around or below SS3 Goku flew around the world multiple times and took a nap in around 30 mins.Honestly Speedwise DB characters are quite overrated and inconsistent. Hercule, Mai, Bulma, whom are normal humans can see DB characters fight at times and if they can’t it is explicity noted like it was impressive. In probably the most impressive fight in Dragon Ball Super so far True Ultra Instinct Goku and Full Power Jiren both move faster than Krillin or Piccolo could see while fighting. However Krillin could still hear them. So faster than the eye..just not sound and that's Goku at his best so far. Attacks in Dragon Ball are also not that fast apparently seeing as how A ki blast aimed at Dende from Buu who had absorbed Piccolo and Gotenks, shows to be slow enough for Satan/Hercule to react to it and fire 3 shots from his pistol at it. Gohan post ritual is also too slow to intercept it.Vastly more durableSuperman's Durabilty feats/Plausible feats:He has fought and survived beatings from those as strong or stronger than him.He has tanked a planet explodingEndured being hit in the face with the equivalent of earthSurvived being in the middle of New Genesis and Apokalips colliding into each other without any real damageSurvived getting hit by a sun exploding near him which destroyed the planet he was on without any real damageand has endured a Black hole or a couple apparently in the New 52.Not to mention in New 52 his thumbnail is harder than diamond.Goku hasn't shown anything quite as impressive:Without Ki being used to protect him, A bullet seems to injure his skin, albeit doesn't seem to hurt.In PSSB, Vegeta has been defeated by having his head slammed into the ground hard enough to create around a house sized crater by an angry but still holding back Beerus.Goku in PSSB did however block and endure punches to his forearms from Super Saiyan Kale who was growing in power. However Frieza knocked Goku out of the way after Kale was about to land a direct hit. Implying he couldn't have endured it and that was before her later power up and feat of lifting the metal man. As shown back in the strength feats.SSB Goku was also severely hurt from being hit by Klangite which had enough force behind it to sink somewhat into the ground upon impact.Goku likes to size up his opponents and fight them at thier best. He won't just go full power unless he has too.Goku isn't one to destroy things without reason so he wouldn't try to endanger things around them.As Skilled as Goku is thought to be, Dragon Ball relies on made up techniques and Ki abilities you could only find in Dragon Ball. Superman has actually applied various combat tactics besides punching and blasting countless times so i can see him being more skilled than Goku in combat. Probably not so much in martial arts but in combat, strategy, and overall skill, he vastly outmatches Goku. Both are still considered Combat Masters in their universes though. Superman's is just way more complex.Superman should be vastly smarter overall. Goku's only actual education comes from ridiculous training (like carrying milk or chasing a cat) or working out. Superman has knowledge in most things, ranging from whats on earth, krypton, or somewhere else out in space.Superman also should have vastly more stamina. New 52 Superman once flew for 60 days non stop. Goku hasn't done anything non stop for longer than minutes at most as far as i can ever recall. At least while alive.In Conclusion: I see Superman winning. His stats are just too much for Goku to keep up with and Goku has never fought someone like him. I see both holding back and over time getting more powerful and using more Ki until Goku runs out of energy while the Sun keeps Superman going, without him ever needing to go all out. This of course assumes, Superman has time to spare.If there is some reason to end the fight fast, then Superman scans Goku's bones and hits him just hard enough to Incapacitate him, or he forces Goku into the atmosphere until he passes out, Etc.The only way i see Goku winning is if Superman gives up the fight in order to go do something important. Superman is just out of Goku's league.Feel free to disagree.4. This answer will probably be my longest, most detailed, and most boring answer ever. Not only will I analyze 3 version of Superman, I will also debunk Goku’s Power. If you do not mind, continue on:Depends on the version (not including Cosmic Armor, Prime One Million, or Strange Visitor. This would be unfair to Goku).Pre-Crisis/Silver AgePost-Crisis/Bronze AgeNew 52Let’s start off with Pre-Crisis Superman. Then, we will divulge into the other versions/incarnations.Pre-Crisis Superman is a version of Superman from 1950–1970’s. This version of Superman is often called “the most powerful” version of Superman, and for good reason.Now that you know a little bit of information on him, let’s dissect and analyze his feats shall we?Strength/striking power-Towing a large amount of planets-Tosses a Neutron Star (that weighs trillions of tons) to another galaxy (billions of light years away).-Arguably his most famous feat, sneezing away a Solar System…-Superman’s best striking feat, casually destroys a structure capable of withstanding the energies of the Big BangSpeed (Travel/combat)-Travels across universes to find Kara. Broke the bonds of infinity and broke every barrier. Spectre was forced to stop him before he saw too much.-Before sneezing, he flew to a long dead universe within seconds to sneeze away a Solar System.-Traveled 10 Million light years in mere moments-Travels trillions of miles in seconds-Was able to evade, catch, and outspeed objects that made the speed of light look like a snails crawlDurability-Casually tanked hits from someone who’s death brings about a new Universe-Casually Tanks a hit with the “magnetic repulsion force of a 100 Galaxies”-Withstands the energies of the Big BangVerdictI believe this version of Superman is far faster, stronger and more durable than Goku, and as such, should be able to dispatch of Goku in quick succession.He actually displays universal feats consistently, whereas Goku it’s mostly assumption, highball, and fan calcs. Superman wins with low-mid difficulty.Now that we got Pre-crisis over with, let’s move on to Post Crisis Superman. Also, I know. That was excruciatingly long. However, it’s got to be this way. Onto the categories!Strength/striking power-Superman’s fight with Darkseid resulted in the shaking of a Solar-system-Superman’s fight with his Earth-2 self resulted in the shatter of time and space…-Superman was able to shatter timelines with a single punch-Superman holds a black hole capable of sucking in the solar system-Supes is able to shatter planets-Is evenly matched with Orion, the son of DarkseidSpeed (Travel/combat)-Fast enough to leave lightray in the dust, the same lightly who could fly around Apokolips 1,000’s of time in mere moments. Apokolips is stated to dwarf galaxies…-Flew from Vega to Earth in mere minutes.-Flew to the Andromeda galaxy and back within a short time span-Not only could Superman adjust his perception to match Flash, the Author (Chris Robertson) states that Superman could perceive seconds as attoseconds.Durability-Absorbs enough anti-sunlight to vaporize half a galaxy-Survived a Red Sun eater’s detonation. This Red Sun eater was 50x the size of the Kepler Supernova-Survived the source-wall’s explosion. The source spans across the entire DC omniverse-Tanks the collision of New Genesis and Apokolips. Two planets said to dwarf Galaxies…VerdictSuperman is still far faster than Goku. His durability is still far above that of Goku’s and his strength still exceeds his. The only thing Goku has at this point is destructive capability. I do think that this would be the closest battle that Goku and Superman would have. However, in a battle where your opponent is so much faster, I don’t see Goku winning. Superman wins with high difficulty.Now onto the final version of Superman that we will be going over today. New 52. This version of Superman has no where near the amount of feats as the other two versions, but, he is here for a reason. Let’s go:Strength-Benches the weight of the Earth for 5 days straight, with no sun, and not even producing a single sweat droplet.-Superman’s punches could be felt from the core of the planet.-Batman believes Clark could pummel the moon to dustSpeed-Supes was able to tag Flash with a flick-Able to swoop down in 1/1000 of a secondth-Flew from one end of the universe back to earth in 2 months (MFTL+).Durability-Tanking a Blackhole potent enough to scare Brainiac-Tanks Darkseid’s amped Omega Beams-Casually flys in front of Supergirl’s heatvision.VerdictWhile it’s clear that this version of Superman is extremely fast (Flew trillions and trillions of miles in only 2 months), he doesn’t have the strength or durability to keep up with Goku. This version of Superman loses to Goku. Goku wins with mid-low difficulty.Debunking GokuNow that the long feat section is over, let’s analyze Goku and determine if he really is as “multiversal/4th Dimensional” as DB fans say he is…“Goku is multiversal/4th Dimensional because he shook The World of Void while powering up!”Yes, he shook The World of Void. However, this doesn’t make you “infinite”. All Goku did was shake The World of Void. He did this only once, never again. He also did this with Ultra Instinct. A power of the Gods, which he no longer can use/attain as stated at the end of DBS ep 131.2. “Goku is 4th Dimensional because he managed to overcome Hit’s timeskip and he managed to stalemate Jiren who was beyond time”Once again, Goku only managed to fight on par with Jiren because of Ultra Instinct. Goku no longer has access to this power. So, this feat is a no-go. Besides, just cause Jiren transcends time doesn’t mean Goku does.Also, Goku only managed to outsmart Hit by watching Vegeta’s fight with Hit. He stated that he would had lost had Vegeta not fought him first. Goku used techniques and wits to beat hit. Besides, if Goku transcends time, don’t you think he could had beaten him quite easily the first time?3. “Goku shook the universe with his punches!”(I know the Manga and the anime are different interpretations of Super, but, the manga and anime at this time, BoG, were the same, so this still applies).No, Goku didn’t shake the universe… Goku and Beerus did. Their combined might (over 70% of Beerus and 100% Goku) was able to shake the universe. That’s is. This doesn’t make Goku universal…There’s also this:(Goku being mortally wounded by a “simple laser”).People also try to use the whole “Super Saiyan makes you 50x stronger” argument to say that Goku would be “50x universal” which is laughable. If Goku (who is apparently universal in BoG, later attain SSJB (50x multiplier), wouldn’t he be stronger than Beerus and Zeno (who only destroyed 6 universes)? So, this argument is stupid and debunked in more ways than one.Rant about the whole multiplier inconsistency, not really needed, just extra proof that it isn’t reliable.This fallacy goes all the way back to DBZ.Back when Frieza was in his 1st form, he managed to blow up Planet Vegeta with one blow. Planet Vegeta. Stated to have 10x the gravity of Earth, this means that Planet Vegeta is greater than Jupiter (which has only 2.4x greater gravity than Earth). And Jupiter is over 1000x bigger than Earth. So, we could assume that Planet Vegeta was s big Planet. This means that Frieza at his weakest was large planet levelSo we could only assume that Frieza at his 100% Power should at very, very least be Large Star level.Goku, in his SSJ1 transformation completely bodied Frieza. That means Goku in SSJ1 was Large Planet level.Now cut to when Frieza returns as Mecha Frieza and is stated to be much stronger than before. Trunks cuts him and his father down in ease. Goku then stops Trunks with 1 finger. So, at the very least, Goku should be beyond large Star level.Now cut to him training with Gohan and mastering SSJ1. He should be Solar System level right? Nope, he got destroyed by Cell (and even stated he had no chance) who was only Solar System level. So, if Goku really got that much stronger over time, how come his destructive capabilities remained relatively the same? Oh, it’s because the 50x multiplier is inconsistent and unreliable.TLDR:Goku, by scaling, should be greater than Cell, but he isn’t. So, SSJ1 multiplier is bullshit.Final, final thoughtsI really don’t see how people could take the whole Goku is multiversal/4th Dimensional/Infinite Power seriously. It’s never shown, it’s usually fan calculations, headcanon, assumptions and highballs.Goku’s best fight would be against Post-Crisis. But, due to the speed difference, strength difference, and durability difference, Supes wins. Granted, this is all my opinion, feel free to comment and disagree, I’ll be open to argue.5. Ever since Goku’s new (for the millionth time) form called Ultra Instinct, the outcome of this battle has been called into question, yet again. In the past, every time, I’ve concluded that Superman was easily stronger.But this time, Goku wins.At this point, I don’t even know if there’s anyone Goku can’t beat. This new Ultra Instinct form puts him almost at par with a guy who’s as strong as, if not stronger than, a God of Destruction.What’s the best Superman has done (not pre-crisis)?Destroyed a planet? Ha!Goku is a universe buster now, if such a thing exists.Let me tell you how EVERY story arc in Dragon Ball works.People, especially Goku fans, are quick to point out how Superman is vastly overpowered and a badly written character. Take a look at the skeletons in your own closet, hypocrites.Words like galaxy-buster and universe-buster are being thrown around in conversations. Akira Toriyama has really done it now.Annihilate the universe itself? Man, you high?This is what happens when you give free rein to an aging, physics-illiterate writer. Guy creates a character who can destroy the universe, but somehow still needs to be shielded when a planet blows up.(Before you argue that the shield was because saiyans and humans can’t survive in space, remember that SSGSS Vegeta was killed in the explosion)In all honesty, Goku and his cronies should have stopped their (mis)adventures after Cell died. Remember this shit?He has enough power to nuke the entire solar system, but somehow, when he was outmatched by an even bigger explosion (from Gohan), the resulting fallout didn’t even destroy a neighbouring city.And when he did trigger a full-blown explosion by self-destructing, he could only destroy King Kai’s planet, which is less than half a mile end-to-end, and didn’t even touch the snakeway right below the planet.If Cell really was strong enough to nuke the sun, which is nearly 150 million kilometres from earth, then he should have easily blown up the snakeway and King Yemma’s office, which are a mere 1 million kms from King Kai’s planet.But did he?Big fat no. Exaggerate much, Toriyama?Obviously, there can only be one of two conclusions from all this:Goku really is a universe buster, but DBZ is so badly written that it fails to take into account the consequences of its own characters’ actions.Toriyama is dumb as hell, perhaps demented, and doesn’t really understand how big a universe (or even a solar system, for that matter) is.Remember this guy?Won’t blame you if you don’t.He’s the Supreme Kai, supposedly the King of the gods of the universe. Toriyama has made a complete joke out of him, literally.The Supreme Kai has been reduced to a mute, almost comical spectator, as dear Goku continues to “break his own limits” again and again (and again).YOU GET A COLOUR! YOU GET A COLOUR! EVERYBODY GETS A COLOUR!Yellow, Red, Blue, even Pink!Ultra Instinct of filth.When he got Super Saiyan God, he moved on to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.What’s next? Is he gonna go Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan? And then maybe add some Kaioken to it to double his power and speed AGAIN?How can anyone not get tired of this? How many times is this guy gonna “transcend his limits” in the name of “training”?You thought pre-crisis Superman was bad? This is just as senseless (if not more).Anyways, that’s my piece on all this. Superman writers are getting smarter and better, experimenting with genuinely new ideas, such as turning him into a villain, taking away his powers, giving him a kid and all.You know what kids are to Goku? Plot devices.After escaping Frieza’s explosion on Namek, Goku could have returned to earth to visit his family. Instead, he trains with aliens for a year, learns to teleport, and STILL chooses a spaceship that takes another year to get back homeRaising Gohan? That’s Piccolo’s jobGohan exists only to unlock his “hidden potential” through his rage, only so that Goku can one day surpass that as wellGoten exists only to do the fusion dance with kid TrunksAs the DC writers get wiser, the DBZ writer gets dumber.Looks like Vegeta is the only smart cat in this universe full of trash.There always is, Vegeta. There always is.tl;dr: Goku wins. But you can no longer claim that Superman is overpowered or badly written. That title, too, belongs to Goku now.6. Looking at the universes.Between Superman and Goku.In the DC universe.Superman has been defeated multiple times.In theory, if Superman is weakened by Kryptonite, he could die like any human. He could also die of old age if he wasn't exposed to earth's yellow sun—though old for an alien means thousands of years. But though Superman has “died” multiple times in the comics, he always comes back.No matter how many times you try to kill Superman. That Motherfucker will come back. He’s just like that.In the Dragon Ball Universe.Goku has been defeated 3 times.Goku died many times but every time he dies, he was brought back to life using dragon balls . To answer the question, he dies when DRAGON BALL DIES. ... When/If he dies of old age. Because dying of natural causes cannot be reversed by the Dragon Balls.I mean I am not like the typical comic or anime freak and the best in terms of these kind of info.But with the research i have gathered.Goku can die permanently while he only gets to live when someone is going to heal him or wish him to be alive through the dragon balls.Superman on the other hand. he dies…. but he WILL always come back. no matter how many times you kill him. He will come back.So if it was a universe where dragon balls didn’t exist.Superman and Goku go against each other and let’s say Goku defeats Superman 1000000 timesAll Superman needs to do is to defeat Goku once.Goku will die.Some more details check this guy out.Check my Math - Goku vs Superman Speed Ranking with power levels - Gen. Discussion - Comic VineCredits to KryptonianPrideSSJ1 Gokus power level at minimum is 150 million. The Average humans power level is roughly 5. World class running speed is about 15 miles per hour, the average is half that. I'm estimating, so lets say 8 is the normal running speed for most people. My Calculations are purely based on assuming a person with a power level of 16 can run at an average of 16 miles an hour. Double the power level = double the average speed.150 million divided by 8 = 18,750,000. At MINIMUM, Super Saiyan Goku can RUN at almost 19,000 million miles an hour. Light speed is roughly 671,000,000 miles an hour. Goku can definitely fly and burst limit speed much faster than he can run. Goku needs a power level of 5,250,000,000 to run at light speed. That's a power level of 5.25 Billion. This was calculated by dividing light speed by Goku's power level, which divided into light speed 35 times. So, 35x150million = 5.25 billion.Gokus power level before turning super saiyan 1 was only 180,000. One hundred and eighty thousand. He increased his power level by 833 times. So, it is safe to say that turning ssj2 is at least 833 times as powerful as ssj1.That would mean gokus SSJ2 power level at MINIMUM is 124,950,000,000 or 124 Billion 950 million, or roughly 125 Billion.SSJ3 is at least 833x as powerful as ssj2 which equates to 104,083,350,000,000 or 104 trillion 83 billion and 350 million. AT MINIMUM.By this point, Goku can RUN at 13,010,418,750,000 miles an hour or 13 trillion 10 billion and 419 million miles an hour ( SSJ3 power level divided by the average human running speed, which is only 8 miles an hour )At SSJ3, goku can RUN at 19,389 times light speed. Gotenks is much stronger than Goku and Mystic Gohan and Vegitto are immensely stronger than both. So...his flight speed is at least 1/3 more than that, and thats a low ball because its unknown. The Running speed to flight ratio is not known. I think 1/3 is fair.Even with this speed, he is nowhere near Silver Age Superman, Prime or any of those versions of Superman. There are 8,765 hours in one year. It takes light 2.5 million years to reach us. These older versions of Superman flew there and back in the blink of an eye, much further actually many times. Literally, the blink of an eye. It would take SSJ3 goku 128 years to RUN to the Andromeda Galaxy. Flash in the Silver Age and Superman raced around the entire Galaxy many times. Nobody in Dragonball Z is anywhere near the physical strength or Speed of Flash or Superman from the older Eras. A tiny fraction, as Superman from this era again, casually flew to distant Galaxies and back without any trouble.Fun facts:-Broly never blew up the Galaxy in DBZ movie 8. He used a special Ki technique. It was just a Spirit Bomb that killed all things. Goku only takes a small amount from everything and did a much larger feat in taking energy from the entire universe once. Broly only took all the life from one Galaxy. The Galaxy imploded, it did not blow up which proves it was not an attack like nearly everyone says it is. Hardly anyone watched the movie.-Broly and Cooler cannot survive the sun, both of them are stronger than any SSJ1. After Brolys Zenkai power upgrade in his second appearance, he creamed SSJ2 Gohan,who in turn would be creamed by his younger SSJ2 version during the Cell Games. Power Level does not increase your tolerance to heat. The Sun will vaporize most of them, at least until SSJ4s level.-A power level of 120 is sufficient enough to destroy the Moon, which is 1/4 the mass of Earth. Radditz can destroy entire planets with a power level of 1,200.-Goku cannot Instant Transmission or teleport anywhere he wishes. He needs to lock on to a Ki source and then use the technique for anything long distance. If they were to fight, he could not Instant Transmission to a red sun. Goku has an IQ of a small child and has no idea where the nearest Red Sun is. If he tried it, he would be incinerated.-Superman has survived super nova...his suit survived the hottest and most powerful explosions in the silver age. Supermans Kryptonian suit from the Silver Age of comics is more durable than anyone in DragonBall Z history.-The older versions of Superman, especially the Movie version circa 1977 with Chris Reeve have mastered all knowledge of scientific fact from 28 Galaxies worth of alien races. That means all fighting arts. Some versions actually stated him to have 1000 years of non stop fighting experience. Goku is only a little bit better than Vegeta, whom has more experience fighting alien races and is able to counter Gokus raw talent with his own more vast experience. Superman's experience is a few billion times Vegetas. Although, it is never portrayed that way. Superman is a power puncher and grapple artist, Goku is a free stylist who never wrestles.-Lots of people have no idea there are so many versions of Superman. Many renditions, many versions changed over the decades. Golden Age, Silver Age to Modern, Movie versions and the new 52 version. Each one are vastly different in power ratings and can do things the others cannot, some lacking, some God like in power. There is only one version of Goku.EDIT:Facts about Superman.13. PHASE THROUGH OBJECTSThere are a lot of superheroes who have the power to pass through solid objects, including Martian Manhunter and Shadowcat of the X-Men. Superman had this power, too, although he hasn’t really used it much. Its most infamous appearance was in “The Mysterious Cube,” an episode of “The Adventures of Superman” in 1958. Written by Robert Leslie Bellem and Whitney Ellsworth and directed by George Blair, the show had a bizarre escape plan by a criminal that only Superman could solve.In the episode, a wanted criminal named Paul Barton hid himself in a cube of super-strong metal, trying to get declared legally dead so he could be absolved of his crimes. To stop him, Superman learned how to vibrate his molecules to pass through objects and into the cube to capture him. He also did the vibration trick in his rematch against Doomsday in 2001’s “Superman” #175, written by Jeph Loeb and penciled by Ed McGuinness. Superman doesn’t do it much, because he’d prefer to smash walls, not pass through them.12. SHAPESHIFTINGYou might think of Plastic Man and the Elongated Man when you think of shapeshifting, but now you need to throw Superman into that mix. Superman has one of the most famous and imitated costumes in comics, so it’s rare when he changes his appearance at all, but he has used this ability a few times, so it counts. Once again, this power came in his Golden Age era, when Superman had “super-muscles” that could mold his face and body like clay.In 1947’s “Superman” #44, written by Bill Finger and penciled by Ira Yarbrough, Superman needed to impersonate a famous stuntman who worried he would be recognized. That’s when Superman used his “super-muscular control” to change his face to perfectly copy the stuntman. However, in “Superman” #45, he topped himself by molding his entire body to look like an inter-dimensional warrior and escape from a cage. When you have super-muscles like that, you can do anything.11. TELEPATHYEverybody knows Superman’s biggest weakness is kryptonite, but one of the Man of Steel’s lesser known weaknesses is that he has no defense against psychic assaults. That means a lot of villains can attack his mind, even if they can’t attack his body. Superman doesn’t seem to have many psychic powers in his modern version, but in the past, his super-brain gave him the power of telepathy, meaning he could read and send his thoughts into other minds.The most modern version of this power came in the 1993 TV series “Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman.”In 1996, the third-season episode “Through a Glass, Darkly” revealed that some Kryptonians had survived the destruction of the planet and lived on another world called New Krypton. Superman was taken by some of them, and discovered all Kryptonians spoke with their minds, but that hasn’t been the case in other versions of Krypton.10. TELEKINESIS VISIONAnother power that started in the Golden Age and carried over into the modern era is Superman’s telekinesis. Most comic fans know one of Superman’s weaknesses is that he doesn’t hold up too well against psychic powers, but don’t know that he’s had psychic abilities of his own. This power came up more in the Silver Age, but there was also a notable moment in the 1987 movie “Superman IV: The Quest for Peace.” Directed by Sidney J. Furie and starring Christopher Reeve, “Superman IV” involved a solar-powered clone of Superman named the Nuclear Man, who battled the hero around the world and even on the moon.“Superman IV” was an awful movie riddled with plot holes, but one moment really stood out, and that was the Man of Steel rebuilding the Great Wall of China. Earlier in the movie, Superman and Nuclear Man destroyed it, and Superman went to fix all the damage they had done. Instead of just putting it back together with his super-speed, Superman just used a beam from his eyes that reassembled the Wall. Too bad he didn’t use it to rebuild Metropolis in “Man of Steel.”9. SUPER-KISSEverything is super-powered about Superman, including his kiss. We’re not saying that Superman is a great kisser (we have no first-hand knowledge of that), but rather that his kiss has actual powers that come with it. Specifically, Superman can erase someone’s mind with just a kiss. Most fans know this power from “Superman II,” where Lois Lane learned Superman was really Clark Kent, but Kent erased her memory of it at the end of the movie with his kiss. This came up in the comics, too.In 1963’s “Action Comics” #306, writer Robert Bernstein and penciler Al Plastino created a story that ended with Clark Kent and Lois Lane caught under the mistletoe at a Christmas party. At the encouragement of the others and Lois’ amusement, Kent kissed her. To everyone’s surprises, Kent gave Lois a kiss that almost knocked her out. Superman’s a lover, not a fighter, but he packs a wallop either way.8. MIND CONTROLRemember what we said about Superman’s mental powers? That brings up another power he has, which is mind control. Yes, Superman can use his super-brain to force people to do his will. Once again, this is more of a Golden Age power, and even in the Golden Age, Superman didn’t use it that often. However, there was a notable instance in 1947’s “Superman” #45.Written by Jerry Siegel and penciled by John Sikela, the issue had a story called “Case of the Living Trophies,” where Superman was kidnapped by an inter-dimensional collector. He was kept in a case filled with gas that paralyzed him, leaving him a living trophy, just like it said on the tin. To escape, Superman used his “telepathic will control” to take control of the alien’s mind and escape. It’s a shame he never used his “will control” again, because if he used that more often, things might go easier for him.7. BRAIN SURGERYYou probably already know about Superman’s heat vision, because it’s one of his most iconic powers. What you may not know is one of the weirder things he’s used it for, which is brain surgery. Superman can use his heat vision to cause some major damage if he wanted to, and he did so in 2001’s “Action Comics” #775 against the ruthless antihero Manchester Black.Written by Joe Kelly, and pencilled by Doug Mahnke and Lee Bermejo, Superman encountered Manchester Black as the leader of a vigilante group known as the Elites. The Elites are a violent group of superheroes who were willing to kill villains as their means of saving the world, which Superman had a big problem with. Manchester Black used his telekinetic powers to pinch blood vessels in Superman’s brain in order to give him a stroke, but Superman got his revenge in the end. The Man of Steel used his heat vision to burn the portion of Manchester Black’s brain that gave him his abilities, leaving Black powerless.6. COPYING HIMSELFOne of Superman’s failings is that he can’t be in two places at once…or can he? This brings us to another little-known power, the ability to copy himself. Superman has been copied and split into multiple versions many times, and in TV series “The Adventures of Superman,” he discovered that he had the power to make duplicates of himself. In the comics, one of the most important and strangest moments came in 1998 in the storyline that came to be known as “Superman Red and Superman Blue.”Starting in “Superman” #122 (1997), Superman lost his usual powers and became an energy-based hero. Then in 1998’s “Superman Red/Superman Blue,” penciled by Stuart Immonen and written by Dan Jurgens, Superman had to escape from a trap by Cyborg Superman and split into two men who came to be known as Red and Blue. The two Supermen were forced to share their lives until finally merging together again.5. KINETIC ENERGY PUNCHSuperman’s strength is legendary and he’s been shown in both the comics and the movies to be able to do everything from smashing mountains to moving planets, but what if he still wanted to give his fists a little more punch? How does he make his already super-strong punch even stronger? With his kinetic energy punch, a power that directs all the kinetic energy of his physical movement into his fists.The kinetic punch made its appearance in 2016’s “Action Comics” #49, created by Greg Pak and Aaron Kuder. Before the issue, Superman had lost his powers thanks to Vandal Savage and then exposed himself to kryptonite in order to kill his damaged cells (kind of like how chemotherapy kills cancer). Unfortunately, when he came out of the kryptonite, the process left him with powers hat were at a weaker level. To beat his enemies, Superman had to resort to his kinetic energy punch, which made an explosion on impact. The punch doesn’t move planets, but it gets the job done.4. SUPER-SMELLSuperman’s five senses are just as amazing as the rest of him. He has super-vision that lets him see far away objects, zoom in to see microscopic creatures and even see through objects. He has super-hearing that lets him hear things in other cities and even other planets, and hear frequencies beyond the human range. Is it a surprise that his sense of smell is just as strong as the rest of him? It shouldn’t be, but it might. The fact is, smelling things isn’t something Superman makes a big deal out of, but we’ll do it for him.Superman’s sense of smell is just as powerful as his sense of hearing. In other words, he can smell in ways that your average bloodhound could only dream of. He can smell a room and tell if there’s a bomb in it or what chemicals are in something, just from the odor.3. SHOOT MINI-SUPERMENNow we’re getting to one of Superman’s most bizarre and obscure powers, and it’s going to take some explaining. In “Superman” #125 in 1958 (Jerry Coleman, Wayne Boring and Stan Kaye), Superman was investigating a crashed spaceship when it exploded in his face. Afterwards, Superman discovered he lost all of his powers except invulnerability, and one little twist. Instead of using all his power himself, Superman could shoot out a tiny version of himself who was empowered with all his missing abilities.The Mini-Me version of Superman could fly, had super-strength and all his other powers, but with the extra power of cuteness. When danger struck, Superman was forced to send out his doppleganger to save the day. The best part is that Superman ended up getting jealous of how much more popular his super-Oompa Loompa was, and destroyed it by sending it after a kryptonite meteor shower, proving it’s not the size of the Superman but how you use it.2. SUPER-VENTRILOQUISMIn the Golden Age, Superman’s powerful lungs could do a lot more than just blow super-cold air. They could also perform what he called “super-ventriloquism,” which is just what it sounds like (pun totally intended). That doesn’t mean Superman would talk with a wooden dummy in his lap while he drank a glass of water. Instead, Superman could perfectly imitate sounds and the voices of others, as well as make it sound like what he was saying was coming from somewhere or someone else.The power of being the world’s greatest ventriloquist came in surprisingly handy in his adventures. Superman would often throw his voice to people like Supergirl to tell her things without being heard by others. Instead of yelling “Hey, Supergirl, get over here,” Superman would throw his voice so it was like whispering right in her ear from 30 feet away. Over time, his super-ventriloquism disappeared, replaced by other newfangled contraptions like cell phones.1. SUPER FLAREAs we’ve gone over, Superman already has a ton of superpowers, but by the 1990s, he’d been pretty well nailed down. That’s why 2015’s “Superman” #38 by Geoff Johns and John Romita Jr. rocked the comic world by introducing a brand-new power for the Man of Steel. In a fight against the supervillain Ulysses, Superman pushed his heat vision further than he’d ever done before. To his surprise (and definitely to Ulysses’ surprise as well), the Man of Steel unleashed a huge energy blast from every cell in his body that knocked him unconscious and left him powerless for 24 hours.That explosion was what came to be known as the Super Flare. Superman was saved by Batman, who later explained that Superman’s heat vision was always just a small focused amount of the total energy he could release. When Superman pushed it to the limit, the action caused him to release all the energy in his body at the cost of his powers. He basically explodes with the power of a small nuke without the inconvenient fallout.Credits to Superman: 15 Powers You Didn't Know The Man Of Steel Had7. There is only one canon version of Goku, but many versions of Superman.So I would say it depends on which version of Superman.Because in comic books like DC or Marvel, there will always be at least one single instance or more in which almost any character will get huge boost of power in the plot of at least one story in at least one universe, like Spiderman getting the uni power, or Batman getting the Mobius Chair, or Joker getting Mr Myxlplyx’s power.That said, when people ussually say Spiderman vs X-Character or Batman vs Y-character, they don’t mean “cosmic spiderman” when they say Spiderman or “Batman with Mobious chair” when they say Batman, nor “Emperor Joker” when they say Joker, and so, going by the same logic on Superman. I asume we are not talking about some rare event single instanced plot powered Superman version like Thought Robot (which I would say is more like a mind fusioned new conciousness of two Superman like characters send to a robot body in another dimension than a Superman with his own powers) or similar things.And so, going by what we could consider as a “normal” Superman, which would be like Post- Crisis, New 52 and Rebirth, I would say that Goku would most likely win, most of the time if not all the time.I’m also going to assume that this is a random encounter.However, in comics, characters not only have many versions, even if we talk about specific versions, they have a variable set of powers, there are instances in which, with absolutely no reason, characters would struggle against things that should be rather easy for them, and times in which they exceed themselves form what they could normally achieve.In order to account for their variable power, random power ups and random depowered instances, we would need to see what comic book characters ussually do, and what they struggle to do on many instances through a long timeline. And then analize their capacities variation based on probabilities, and then can calculate and the most probable level for the powers of said character in a random encounter.In general I would say Superman is at most in his usual time from multi-continent to multi-planet level in terms of strenght, durability and destructive capacity, at best goes up to solar system level, which is rare. But can go much higher in some very few rarer instances, which also means that those are also highly unprobable level of power for a random encounter from and statistical view.That said, even taking into account the random spikes of power ups and power downs of comic characters stats, like Superman’s, I would Say Goku would probably beat Superman over 99.9% of the time, as normal versions of Superman are not at a level of powers at which he can endangere a universe, multiple plains of existence and dimensions with a few punches, which we know Goku is able to do since he achieved his SSJG form, and he have much more powerful forms like SJJB, and on Top of that the kaiokens up to 20. Besides, Superman is not the same kind of fighter that Goku is, because as powerful and strong as Superman could be, his figthing method is quite different from Dragon Ball fighting style. And in this way Goku also have advantage over technique and fighting pace and fighting speed. Superman focus mostly on giving strong blows, he pucnches one time and gets punched back all the time, and while he manage to resist the attacks he receive, he does get damaged and he has to continue fighting with that damage, he is not the kind of character who have the martial arts skill combined with his powers to be able to parry, dodge and throw thousands of hits / punches or kicks per second, every second for an unkwon amount of time, but Goku is, and if someone tries to punch or kick Goku, he will try either dodge it or block it and if someone shoots an energy attack to Goku he would try to dodge it, swap it away with a hand, or counter it an energy attack of his own or an energy barrier, whereareas Superman would simply receive the attack and take damage, to the point one might even wonder if Superman have proper dodging /parrying skills.And with Ultra Instict, theg gap of power widens inmensly. Nor the SSJG, who’s punches could shake the universe and many dimensions, nor the much more powerful SJJB, even with kaioken 20 on top were anything to Jiren, but Ultra Instinct was able to match it and even surpass it a bit, and Jiren is pretty much God of Destruction Level.But, not just the gap of power, also the gap of skill, as now he has auto-dodging + auto-aiming hax. Ultra Instinct basically gives him like some sort of godly near like perfect martial arts / body movement mastery, it means that his body would somehow always ends up moving in an specific way to which he will always end up dodging, blocking or parrying any attack and countering it in the best possible way at any time. Ultra Instinct is like some sort of subconciouss precognition + auto movement with night perfect precission. Superman wouldn’t be able to land a single hit. With this new power up + hax, Goku would probably beat normal Superman 100% of the time, or at very least, 99.999999999999(insert unkwon amount of digits)% of the time. 8. Whenever this question arises, most people/fanboys refer to the Deathbattle video of Goku vs Superman on youtube by Screwattack, which ran some calculations and provided a simulation that eventually proved Supes would trump Goku. Here is the link to the battle:On closer scrutiny, it becomes painfully obvious that this video was made by Superman fanboys with an incredibly biased take on his abilities and basically skews the entire statistic set in his favour, by grossly undermining Goku's. They basically based all of their calculations off the weakest version of Goku, from right at the start of the series, and made no allowance for the fact that he grew immeasurably stronger as the series progressed, making his base form incredibly strong, and as a result, the SSJ power ups from there on, must account for an even more exponential power increase.So here's an attempt to make some corrections to it, from various sources.The first thing to consider here is that which version of Superman are we considering? Going by the fact that the Superman franchise has existed in the comic verse for over 70 years, and written by a plethora of different authors, there is a wide discrepancy in the continuity and regularity of abilities of Supes over the years.The first version of Superman that appeared in the original Man of Steel series in the 40s described Supes as 10x stronger than an average human being, barely remarkable by todays superhero standards. His basic feat at the time were flight, ability to lift object like cars, trains etc, and take on bullets and ammo without sustaining any damage.Image for reference:But, over the years, several writers have progressively made Supes stronger and faster, even to the point of creating the non canon, parallel universe Superman Prime One Million, who spent 15000 years inside the sun, and basically emerged as an omnipotent God, with the power of the Creator, the ability to alter reality, create and destroy worlds and galaxies at whim, resurrect the dead, convert them into galactic being, and basically being nigh immortal and all powerful, by creating reality by thought.But this version is non canon, just like Goku's SSJ4 form and the GT series. For the sake of fair comparison, lets concentrate only on canon versions of both heroes.Even so, Superman's strength has grossly varied from comics over time to movies. In some versions, he is beaten to a pulp and left in a near death coma by Darksied, while in others he easily overpowers far stronger enemies.Even in the movies, for instance Superman Returns, the first scene shows Supes struggling to land a measly airplane, while in one version of the comics, Superman by himself shifts the Earth back into its orbit.The most consistent version of Superman is by far DC's new 52 series, which I shall use to compare here.Here are some facts to consider while measuring up Superman's strength and ability:-lifting power of 6.6 octillion tonnes-flight at near the speed of light for some distances-ability to endure the equivalent of 15 exploding supernovas to the face-heat vision comparable to the temperature of the outer region of the sun-telepathy-x-ray vision and ability to instantly lobotomize enemies-near immortal in the presence of a yellow sun, due to exceptional recovery factor from radiation-trained in kryptonian martial arts of Torquasm-Vo and Torquasm-Rao, the "hard" and "soft" styles of offence and defence.Now on to Goku. Here are some facts to consider while estimating Goku's strength.-Frieza destroyed planet Vageta of the saiyans with ONE finger. One finger. And Goku goes on to beat Frieza comprehensively in his first SSJ form.That should give you an idea how easily a base SSj can destroy a planet, which is one of Superman's more impressive feats.-Goku is an expert martial artist trained and proficient in pretty much all form of hand to hand combat, a warrior race descendant, who has basically spent his life perfecting every known form of combat.Superman, in comparison, is more of a street brawler, with raw punching power and endurance.-Instant transmission-the ability to travel from point A to point B at the speed of thought, add to that, the fighting genius of Goku to mix up his powerful Ki attacks just like the instant transmission kamehameha to Cell, we have a warrior beyond par.-Vageta is consistently shown to be training at levels of more than 200 and even 500 times that of Earth's gravity. Yet, he doesnt even come close to Goku's strength level. Ill leave you to estimate Goku's speed and endurance from that itself.-Goku made the planet tremble and quake just by powering up to his SSJ3 form, and as the other characters mentioned, if he had continued at that rate, he would have ripped the planet into pieces JUST BY POWERING UP.-All of this power and SSJ3 Goku was beaten by ONE FINGER by Bills/Beerus, the God of Destruction-Goku eventually ascends to SSJ God level, which is able to go toe to toe with Bills. That is the level of power Goku achieved in the God form, from being defeated by one finger, to be able to hold his own against Bills with this power up.-Towards the end of the movie, Goku absorns this SSJ God mode, meaning he doesnt need 4 other SSJs to temporarily ascend him into that form. He has now acquired that as a base level. So much so, that Bills even invites Goku to become the next God of Destruction after him.-In the next movie, Frieza Resurrection, Goku ascends to and even higher form, where he achieves an SSJ in the SSJ God form, currently being called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan(ssjGodssj). One can only imagine the level of power and ability he commands at this form.So, the answer, is pretty decisive. On one hand, we have Superman, a phenomenally powerful hero, but one whose limit of strength is peaked by his exposure to the yellow star. Superman is n ow warrior, rather a savior using his power to defend the good. Several times in the comic verse, Supes has been called out for not having the heart of a warrior.On the other hand, we have a warrior race descendant, who by sheer will and hard work, keeps surpassing his own limits of battle strength and abilities, and ascending to levels of power incomparable to any other mortal being, after having held his own against the God of Destruction, a fighting genius who has spent his entire existence honing and sharpening his fighting skills to be the absolute best.In my view, the full powered SSJ2 form, or at best the SSJ3 form is adequate for Goku to comprehensively beat Superman in a 1v1.But then again, both these heroes are inherently good and pure, and defenders of righteousness and justice, so it is unlikely that they will go at each other for blood. But in case they do, Goku will be the last one standing. By some distance.Image source: Google.9. Amongst anime and comic fans this is the debate of the century I guess.2018 Update -Ultra Instinct Goku vs Superman New 52Short Answer -[SSG (Red) is more than sufficient to handle Superman.SSB is Galactus levelUltra Instinct Goku, has surpassed God of Destruction. A Universe Buster. Maybe comparable to Superman Prime One Million.]A battle between two of the most powerful superheroes of all times.Superman vs GokuFirst The Rules :All the data collected for Death Battle is with respect to comic/manga series as it serves the most authentic version of information.All the stats are calculated with each contestant at their maximum potential.All the factors regarding "kindness" are eliminated as we wish to see a clear winner here so basically there will be only ONE man standing.All the other factors/skills that the contestant can use/understand or manipulate are taken into account.Only the most recent forms of each of the contestant is selected, because they have a variety of feats in each age/saga. Reduces confusion and narrows down. So we are going to follow only ONE form of each of them.THERE WILL BE NO MERCYFirstly we need to know which version of Superman are we talking about since there are many many versions of this caped hero we need to select the most appropriate and recent version.For that I select Superman New 52 , since it was released latest in September 2011.Now, we compare these two competitors based on 5 factors :StrengthSpeedDurabilitySkills / TechniquesEnergySO LET'S GET STARTED !1. Strength :As of The New 52 reboot, his strength now exceeds 5.972 sextillion metric tons.This has been stated sharp and clear but don't have the exact knowledge of how much can Goku lift so we have to do some math here (No its not 40 tonnes :P) [1]Goku lifted a Katchin cube on Supreme Kai's planet and according to DBZ Katchin is the hardest metal in the Universe. So what else can be as hard as Katchin ? Well the closest we can get is the core of Neutron Star. Since its also the heaviest substance in the Universe. And how heavy is a neutron star?A neutron star has a mass of at least 1.1 and perhaps up to 3 solar masses (M☉),[1][2] though the highest observed mass is 2.01 M☉Neutron stars typically have a surface temperature around ~6×105 K.[3][4][5][6][a] Neutron stars have overall densities of 3.7×1017 to5.9×1017 kg/m3 (2.6×1014 to 4.1×1014 times the density of the Sun),[b] which is comparable to the approximate density of an atomic nucleus of 3×1017 kg/m3.[7] The neutron star's density varies from below 1×109 kg/m3 in the crust—increasing with depth—to above 6×1017 or 8×10^17 kg/m3 deeper inside (denser than an atomic nucleus).[8] A normal-sized matchbox containing neutron-star material would have a mass of approximately 5 trillion tons or ~1000 km3 of Earth rock.Average = 8 x 10^17So by that calculation, Goku is 5'9" and the cube is about slight more than his height = 200 cm in height according to this image :So Goku is lifting 200x200x200 cc Katchin = 8,000,000 cc = 8 m^3Therefore in base form he can lift about 64 x 10^17kgWith the Super Saiyan Multiplier := 5.12 +e26 kgwhich is way more than 5.972 x 10^24 kg by Superman.[As there was a drasric increase in power level of Goku and it is impossible to calculate the power levels of Gods its a safe assumption to take 10x SSJ3 atleast I am sure its more than that. This is the minimum amount what an SSGSS can lift. I am pretty sure that Goku is far more capable of lifting. ]GOKU 1 - 0 SUPERMAN[1] Powers and abilities of Superman[2] Neutron star2. Speed :SupermanHe describes Superman as running over two thousand miles per secondSpeedster (fiction)In new 52 he flies from Pluto to earth in the time the Outsiders use the teleporter. So say they use about 5 minutes at minimum.That makes 7.5 Billion Kms in 5 mins which = 2.5 x 10^7 km per sec (3 x 10^5 is speed of light) so roughly 80 times the speed of light. There are other versions with different speeds but as I said we are considering only new 52 ! That's it! And there is no legitimate proof like the weights stating that Superman is that fast numerically. He also being stated as faster than a speeding bullet to visiting Alpha Centauri in a few seconds. Some state that its 185 quadrillion kms per hour, but we actually dont know how much time did he take to travel. He also is supposed to travel the edge of Universe at a speed of over 250 billion times the speed of light There is hell lot of speculations about it.Please check this link - It gives precise idea about New 52's authentic featsSuperman (New 52) - Check the Levels as well. It states FTL+ that is 10-100 times speed of light. My calculation is 80 times. Pretty close.Superman comics have time and again altered his powers and that is creating a lot of fuss!Comparing with Goku :Goku flied at a speed at Kai's planet = 310 Km per hour, ans power level of 450Then again when he returned his speed was 11000 and power level was 8000.Power2 / Power1 = 8000/450 = 17.77Speed2 /Speed1 = 35.48We can safely assume that speed increase is twice power increase.In applying the same at a base power level of 3 millionHis speed is 4.13 million km per hourMultiplying with power levels at SSGSS his speed is 8.26667 x 10^11 km per hour or2.29 x 10^8 km per secBut since this time I give the benefit of doubt to Superman. But flying fast is not equal to combat speed. Can Superman fight at 250 billion times the speed of light? Well that's obviously No. Lets check how fast can he fight at that speed? There is again no proof.Goku 1 - 1 Superman3. DurabilitySuperman is supposed to survive 15 exploding supernovas. That is seriously great feat in Superman New 52, there is no other major durability feat mentioned.Goku is supposed to absorb Lord Beerus' Destruction Sphere. Owing to the fact that he was against a God level Goku and he can destroy 1/5th of Universe himself. DS was strong enough to take down a Galaxy.Goku 2 - 1 SupermanSupermanAbilities :Super Intelligent - Reads all the possible medical books in matter of minutes and even a pen drive.Heat RaysX Ray VisionCan block mental/psychological attacks.Freezing BreathTelepathyTorquasm-Vo and Torquasm-Rao, the "hard" and "soft" styles of offence and defence, Kryptonian Martial ArtsSuperman (New 52) List of Feats and Abilities of Superman New 52Weakness :MagicKryptoniteLooses Power in Red SunGokuAbilitiesGrows in strength every single time he fights/trains exponentiallyMartial-Arts Scholar. Combat speed greater than speed of light.Can sense God ki and energy of any kind from Galaxies away!Instant TransmissionGoku's Techniques - List of techniques used by GokuKiokenUltra InstinctWeaknessNot exactly specified in manga.Mercy, at most is the only weakness [Since we have already eliminated it in rules it doesn't count]SHOWDOWNSuperman will have an upper hand against physical moves, as he would definitely sustain most of Goku's attacks. He can even take a head on with SSGSS Kamehameha for the first time. In offense he would barely lay hand on Goku. There is no chance that he can even punch Goku multiple times.SSG Goku can survive in space! This was seen in the match SSG Goku vs Beerus. It will hardly take any time for Goku to realise that Superman relinquishes energy by Yellow Sun. But he doesnt know how to beat him. So we assume that they teleport to somewhere away from yellow sun but not close to red sun. Since Goku has taken minimum hits and worked on a lot he might run out of gas. But unfortunately for Superman he is a Saiyan and the more they fight the stronger they get.SSG Goku's arm fight with Lord Beerus was hard enough to shake the Universe. It is evident that in few exchanges of blows SSGSS Goku will put a dent in Man of Steel. As God Goku survived Beerus' strongest of Beerus attacks [The Destruction Sphere].Knowing that its hard to lay hand on Goku, Superman might try telepathy and try to weaken Goku from within. The Man of steel has already used physical attacks and have not done well being slow in combat. Goku has survived telekenetic attacks in DragonBall against Geneal Blue even being a kid. His SSGSS is said to be a tranquil form exceeding the God. Its not going to be a cakewalk to hold down a God. Not to be forgotten Goku and Gohan trained for a year in Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Also Goku has gone severe training in 100G for months before being a Super Saiyan. Owing to the fact that the amount of training he has undergone and his ability to get stronger in the fight, he definitely has huge stamina.Superman despite of the fact of X-rays, heat vision and super speed, slow combat speed has really dented him down. Though it cant be denied that Goku will definitely take blows, but they are not close to God level at which Goku is. From the link in Superman's feats he can barely go above planet level blows. And after surviving Lord Beerus and Majin Buu, planet level blows are a joke.Goku is half as strong as Lord Beerus being God and Beerus can destroy 1/5th of Universe. So Goku is potent enough to destroy 1/10th of it. Which easily makes him a Multi-Galaxy level fighter. Someone who can blast away galaxies with a blow.We have not even considered, Goku instant transmitting to a planet with red sun and beating Superman with ease. It was a fair fight and a fair win to Goku. Secondly. In DBS, the storyline has reached Multi-Universe level, where universe 6 and 7 fight against each other. So this is hard and clear fact that Goku is a Multiverse Level Fighter. And Superman is Galaxy level at most. There is a reason why he is said to be a GOD.The story ends here. No One Walks Past a fully powered SSGSS Kamehameha.RIP Superman !In the link provided related to Superman's feats its clearly stated that Superman is Tier 5A+ [ Planet Level +] and from Dragonball Super we can easily infer that since Goku is fighting a Multiverse battle he is a minimum of Tier 3B+ [Multiple Galaxy Buster]The series is not over yet and its evident that Goku would reach somewhere close to 2C [ Universe Level] at least.Superman fanboys can post hate comments and overhyped power references below. I'll grab some popcorn.Thanks.Tiers : Character TieringValid References :Superman: Red Son - WikipediaGreatest New 52 Superman Feats - Superman - Comic Vinehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_SupermanGokuVideo Reference :We all know that manga/comic writers are not physicists, so please don't take this so seriously and start a debate all over.IMPORTANTSuperman (Pre-Crisis) : Is 4-A to 3-CSon Goku : Is clearly 3A and Low 2C.I don't think this needs anymore clarification. Let's just accept the fact.10. This is a question that has plagued many people for many years now. Fear not… here is the answer.Goku is more powerful than Superman. His power was, unlike Superman’s, enough to shake the multiverse in his mighty battle with Beerus.And that was only in his Super Saiyan God form. Above that form is Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan 4, Ultra Instinct -Sign-, Ultra Instinct, and finally, Mastered Ultra Instinct.Unlike Superman, Goku’s ki power does not come from the Sun. It comes from the energy of everything. The Sun can burn out soon, and Superman’s power can be weakened by a.) kryptonite and b.) the radiation from a red sun. Goku’s power cannot be weakened except by his own physical strength.However, that does not mean Superman can’t beat Goku. Just because someone is stronger than Superman does not mean they can’t be beaten. The archnemesis of Superman, Darkseid, who is ten times stronger than Superman in his physical form alone, can be defeated by Superman’s might.Superman also cannot truly be hurt by anything in his yellow sun-powered form, except for when kryptonite radiates and blocks the sun’s radiation from him. Even when he looks tired and beaten up, he is really invulnerable, and thanks to his regenerative healing factor, he can heal wounds. Superman was therefore able to survive Darkseid’s true form, which is a dimension of pure evil as large as the entire multiverse itself, maybe larger.Superman also has been beaten by those weaker than himself, like Wonder Woman, Doomsday, and Parasite, without the use of kryptonite. And humans, like Lex Luthor and Batman, are genius enough to know Superman can be stopped by his sense of compassion and caring heart, as well as by the loss of his loved ones. In the same way Superman can be beaten by creatures weaker than him, so can he defeat those stronger.Ultimately, the winner is… whoever you please. If you feel Superman can defeat Goku through his not-to-be-underestimated power, you are not wrong. But if you feel Goku can crush Superman with his limitless ki, you are not wrong there, either. They are pretty even, so the winner is whoever you prefer. If you prefer dark and abstract, Superman may be your preference; on the other hand, if you like carefree and relatable, Goku may be right for you. If you like both, well… it’s up to you.11. Okay, I’m going to be very brief about this.But Goku, definitely Goku. Why?Well, for a multitude of reasons, one of them being that Goku from Dragon Ball Super, in his BASE, is Universal in strength.At the end of DBZ his Super Saiyan 3 transformation is Low-Galaxy Level, or, if you want to lowball him, High-Solar System level. We know this because he was on par with Kid Buu, who was powerful enough to wipe out whole galaxies over the course of hundreds-thousands of years.However, once he gets to Beerus in Dragon Ball Super his power increases dramatically.Super Saiyan God (Red hair) is Goku’s first God transformation. In a suppressed state he and Beerus were going to destroy the universe with their power.Three Punches were nearly enough to obliterate the macrocosm, which is larger than the real-life universe.Most versions of Superman can’t even do this. Sure, there’s a couple, like the most powerful version (Cosmic Armor Superman, I believe, and probably a Blue-Star powered Superman and Superman Prime) But versions like Post-Crisis And New 52 probably don’t stand a chance. Goku, at the start of Super, is Universal-tier. Think about that for a second.Now we’re moving on: Super Saiyan Blue. The transformation’s strength compared to Super Saiyan God is unknown canonically, but we do know it is stronger by a substantial amount (going by the manga, probably more than five times stronger). That would make Goku Universal+.Then there’s Kaioken. This one blew my mind when I first saw it; It’s basically Super Saiyan Blue with Kaioken stacked upon it, which increases all of his stats depending on the multiplier. We’re gonna focus on X10.In the Universe 6 Tournament Arc, Goku used Kaioken x10 Super Saiyan Blue and charged Hit, however the Assassin activated his Time-Skip, which SHOULD have stopped him in time.However, SSB Kaioken x10 was so obscenely powerful he moved past the Stopped Time. Goku was faster than time itself for a brief amount of time.It just gets more insane from here on out. In the Goku Black Saga he managed to somewhat damage Merged Zamasu with the Kaioken technique:I’m assuming Goku used a high Kaioken to damage him; maybe Kaioken x10 or x20. Nevertheless, Goku managed to piss off and damage a character that took Vegito Blue to properly subdue. At this point, Goku might be reaching High-Universal, or maybe even Low-Multiversal.Now here’s the trump card. The transformation that will shut down any and all Superman vs Goku debates:Limit. Breaker. Goku, AKA Ultra Instinct Goku. First of all, the name alone implies that Goku’s strong enough to defeat Superman; Supes, no matter what people say, has a limit, he’s always had one (Maybe not Pre-Crisis but you get the idea). Goku will break that limit and defeat him.But there’s factual evidence to back me up.First of all, Ultra Instinct allows the user to dodge any attack without their brain registering it, which makes them much more agile and bolsters their reflexes immensely:I know that’s a little hard to see, but Goku dodged Jiren’s punch (Keep in mind Jiren is stronger than a God of Destruction), instinctively. His agility and speed are now off the charts!So let’s move on to strength.In episode 78 of Dragon Ball Super the Grand Priest explains to the Z-Warriors that the World of Void, where the Tournament of Power takes place, is:And when Goku transformed into Ultra Instinct, the Angels and Gods of Destructions said that he was literally shaking the entire world of Void.Ultra Instinct Goku was shaking Infinity. Do you know what this makes him?Goku has officially become a 4th Dimensional Character. He’s able to shake an infinite amount of space just by his presence alone.That automatically makes him infinitely stronger than Superman Prime, and pretty much every single version of Superman except for two: Cosmic Armor and Pre-Crisis.Cosmic Armor (From Comic Vine): “The Thought Robot is a 4-D Superman woken up in a body of pure thought. He is powered by symmetry, memories, duality, probabilities, and possibilities.”Pre-Crisis is stated to be Infinite:Therefore, both are 4th Dimensional. However, I believe that Limit Breaker Goku can probably defeat both of them. Why?In episode of 110, Piccolo states this:Which means that Goku, even in his 4-D Limit Breaker state, is getting stronger.He’s increasing: Evolving and building strength even though he had already reached Infinity.SethTheProgrammer backs this up by saying: “Goku in this state surpasses even the Spirit Bomb plus Kaioken x20 Blue, and also has instant dodge hacks and constantly evolves and grows more powerful every punch he throws at his opponent. He is constantly growing more powerful, so anybody he fights in his dimensional tiering he will slowly gain on them infinitely; he will slowly start growing as strong as they are, or surpass them blatantly.”He basically said that anyone who’s also 4th dimensional Goku will catch up to and beat. So that means that Cosmic Armor and Pre-Crisis will eventually be beaten by Goku.After all, the three of them are 4th dimensional, which means that Supes is another Limit for Goku to break.Goku Wins.12. Disclaimer: I love all branches of Dragon ball, and Superman. I think both are amazing characters, and complete powerhouses of their own nature. I hate being dragged into this debate, but I feel obligated to answer even though they would never fight. Superman would probably find Goku extremely annoying and leave.Off topic, but probably necessary to state for an argument. The “limit less strength and speed”. Superman does get stronger, technically every 8 minutes or so (because that’s how long it takes the suns rays to connect with earth) but there isn’t a yellow sun in every corner of the universe, and well when the sun on earth goes, so does life on earth (unless he sacrifices himself) leaving superman pretty useless, what’s he going to prove his strength to, the dirty and rocks? lol. So superman’s limit in this argument is until the time the sun dies. Goku gets stronger and faster the more he fights, and even bigger of a boost of speed/strength/power when he come to a near death experience. I’m going to rap this up and just say that Goku can become stronger than anyone! that was originally stronger than him, if they continue to fight throughout time. If you believe superman is stronger, or at least will win, then he WILL HAVE TO kill Goku in the first match, or he’ll comeback stronger than him… Since Goku gets more powerful a shit-load faster than superman.First, lets dis-guard all the information from ScrewAttack, and any other biased Death-battles and focus on facts.SupermanHe can fly faster than the speed of light.He benched earth’s weight for five days straight.…. And even more.He has held a black hole with his hands!I’ll kind of debunk his strength here. the black hole was premature and nowhere near its Max-potential, so it’s not entirely true to say he held a black hole (technically it is fair to say, but it wasn’t anywhere close to its full form), but that’s what the writers said and I’m in no position to argue. If the black hole was fully formed he would have never been able to hold it, probably would have killed him instantly. Why do I say this? lookup black holes, the bigger the stronger, the deadlier. If that black hole were only the size of a house, it would have killed him probably. Just an estimate off his quote and body language from this picture.He extremely durable, survived planet shattering punches, plant sized expositions, and even a fight against batman.GokuHe can fly, and Fight within the speed of light realm… Meaning he can Punch, kick, head-but, block, etc at the speed of light and faster at will.I suggest anyone that’s wanting facts and calculations to read this post. Battle of the gods Goku's PL and potential feats calculated. - Goku - Comic VineHe has fought over 60 trillion times the speed of light.It’s estimated he can lift 17.7 Billion tons as a SSJ3 at he end of the Buu arc. and in Battle of the Gods he is calculated to lift over 13,499,136,000,000,002,048,152,056,752,928,128,272,528,424,048 Tons… Don’t forget he can go Kaio-ken x20, which basically multiplies all his physical attributes by 20. Which if I’m not mistaken is 13 quattuorvigintillion tons. Waaaaaaaaay more than Superman. Big Numbers. All these numbers are without using the Kaio-ken multiplier.So, Now we know he is faster, and more stronger than superman.Goku’s punches in battle of the Gods were so strong it was sending shock-waves through the universe!And at this point he was using 75% or 80% of his full power, in a new form he hasn’t even mastered yet.This entire debate is useless! It’s a no brainier to anyone who does research on both ends that Goku is the better man, he’s Stronger, Faster, and a genius fighter. this is Goku in battle of the gods, even if superman was close to this level, or even a bit stronger … current Goku would smoke him.Hypothetically speaking, even if Superman was stronger by a lot or even a little Goku still is factually A LOT faster, and a master martial-artist. Speed and experience is literally everything in a fight, which Goku has plenty of over Superman.Also hypothetically speaking. Goku gets stronger while fighting, and after fighting win or lose, he still gets stronger… so even if superman were to beat him, Goku would eventually come back a lot stronger than him…it’s true, look at all his opponents, they wreck him 1 or 2 times, maybe 3 times and then he comes back waaaay stronger than them.Goku hardly fights serious, No one really knows how strong he can get, or currently is… he could be limitless for all we know.Conclusion: Goku wins. Sorry but from the facts I’ve gathered it’s a no brainer. He is Way stronger, faster, and a more experienced fighter compared to superman. Everything physical about him crushes Superman. And for those who want to argue I didn’t use all of superman greatest feats, be grateful I compared him to Battle of the Gods Goku, the version that is weaker, and holding back.13. Superman wins, and this fight is not right for Goku.But let's start.Many people believe that Goku is multiversal or something like that.And this can only be false.Let's analyze two common "feats" of Goku.1) Goku destroys the universe with a few punches.This feat was written really badly.How can you read Goku and Beerus were not destroying the universe, but all the matter present in it.And anyway they weren't doing it with fists, but with their energy blows.So Goku SSJGOD alone can't even destroy all the galaxies, let alone the universe.2) Goku shakes the world of emptiness (infinity) with his simple presence.No, this never happened.Yes I know, it was confirmed by Crillin, but obviously it is false.Because?Well because the world of emptiness is precisely empty, space time does not even exist.And by logic one cannot move something that does not exist.Goku has indeed shaken the Ring lol.With this I am saying that Goku is not even universal?Obviously not.The absolute greatest feat of Goku is to destroy Kefla, a being able to destroy a universe (and in Dragonball the universes are 3 times bigger).All this using only the UI.With the MUI he was almost on a par with Jiren Full Power, a guy who is stronger than Kefla in basic form.But since Goku can't use the MUI when he wants (for now) his maximum is the SSJBLUE Kaiokenx20.We know that by using this transformation Goku could not beat Kefla.This makes this form of Goku therefore cannot destroy 3 universes.But if we used the MUI Goku could at most destroy perhaps a dozen universes (of our reality, not in Dragonball).We know, however, that Goku's resistance is decidedly inferior to his power, in fact, even if he defeated Kefla, he would not have survived if he had hit it.Speed ​​is a thorny topic.Dyspo in Super goes at the speed of light, but this is an obvious inconsistency.Whis indeed travels at the incredible speed of 498 quadrillion times the speed of light Dragon Ball Super: Whis' Speed FeatAnd surely Goku MUI is not so much slower than Whis.Speaking instead of Superman ... well he is really a monster, probably the strongest superhero of all.The Highfather called him an equal.How strong is the Highfather?Well he is a being of the sphere of the gods, a place that transcends the infinite multiverse of the DC.Superman has repeatedly stated that he can destroy the universe.And a universe in the DC is definitely larger than the entire DB multiverse.Superman has destroyed infinite dimensions over and over again.Superman defeated Dominus, a being who is the equal of Kismet, or DC comics Eternity.And he fought almost on a par with Mxyzptlk, a fifth-dimensional being who can easily destroy Darkseid's Avatars.How strong is a Darkseid Avatar?Well he can safely destroy the Monitor, a guy who transcends the Sphere of the Gods.Superman said he could destroy the Phantom Zone, which is not a simple dimension.It is in fact connected to what is called the tactile world.The phantom Zone can connect you to the Presence that lives in the sphere of the gods.Superman's heat vision can easily repair the multiverse.Superman has shown twice that he has infinite strength.Superman also defeated death.Superman also destroyed a dimension that needed to be as strong as Trigon to be destroyed.And Trigon is as strong as the Specter, the judge of the multiverse.This is just strength.In terms of speed, Superman reacts in attoseconds.How much is an attosecond?Well if light in a second can travel 7.5 times the earth's circumference, in a second it could not even travel the diameter of a cell.He also traveled trillions of light years in a few moments.Superman is also very durable.He survived Hypertime, created by the World Forger.Hypertime reaches every mathematically possible age and connects everything.It also connects the Totality, or the energy that Perpetua used to create the multiverse.I think I made it clear that Superman could destroy anyone in Dragonball by himself.14. Sigh (why Lord…whyyyyy?!?! lol). Superman. The answer in these deals is always Superman.Nobody is going to like it if your favorite (or personal pick between the 2) gets defeated because that’s just how it goes, but Screwattack has extensively documented this in their hilarious Death Battle series. Twice.If you find yourself with a spare 53 minutes to kill (total)…Now, I have heard many people say “the numbers are messed up” & so on; all I’m saying is it has been looked into at a detailed level & a serious attempt at an “objective, numbers-based” analysis has been made. Your agreement or not is, of course & as always, up to you.Almost 40 million viewings of the first along with over 15 million viewings of the second, not to mention a combined almost 700,000 comments on both videos (as I write) should erase any doubt (if you actually had any) how contested this topic is. From what I’ve seen in many years of looking at this kind of thing, the 3 most hotly debated topics in vs. battles are Superman vs. Thor, Superman vs. Hulk, & Superman vs. Goku.Carefully note that all of them involve Superman. Also carefully note that no other combinations or permutations not involving Superman are that fiercely contested or popularly interesting. You rarely hear of much furor being made over, say, a Thor vs. Goku battle, or Hulk vs. Goku (inside the Marvel Universe & away from Superman, you will find a lively brawl attending any Thor vs. Hulk matchup…but still not on a “Superman vs.” either one of those titans level).What I’m getting at with this is why Superman wins all these deals. It’s not really to do with his practically-limitless strength or equally practically-limitless durability & stamina, or his practically-limitless heat vision (which would let him defeat most anybody, anytime he wants), or any other physical quality you can bring to the fight. After all, these are fictional characters, yeah? They’re not “real,” in any sense other than the literary & legally-owned intellectual property sense.Makes you wonder what all the fuss & bother is about, right? Any writer, given editorial permission, can do whatever he likes with any of these properties. He can have Superman or Thor or Hulk or Goku or all of them at once whipped by a bunch of unpowered teenage schoolgirls, if he wants. Remember Thanos vs. Squirrel Girl? That’s the whole point of that. It’s all fiction, all malleable, all wildly inconsistent, & always at the whim & behest of the person writing at the time. So…If that writer (e.g. Greg Pak, ultimate Hulk fanboy, who has also written Superman) wants to claim that Hulk is stronger, well then, guess what? He will be, under Greg’s pen. And if that writer (e.g. Geoff Johns, whose favorite character is the Flash) wants to claim that Flash is faster, well then, guess what? He will be, under Geoff’s pen. And if that writer (e.g. Walt Simonson, imo the greatest Thor scribe of all time & whose favorite character is the Thunderer) wants to claim that Thor is stronger than the rest, well then, guess what? He will be, under Walt’s pen. And if that writer (e.g. Kurt Busiek, author of some very famous & well-received Thor arcs who was given the privilege of writing the crossover tale of DC & Marvel’s premier superteams the JLA & the Avengers) wants to claim that Superman beats Thor, well then, guess what? He will, under Kurt’s pen.And etc. This is how it is in comic books, yes? I’m sure we can all agree on that (no matter how much we may not like it in any particular case). So then, the obvious question presents itself:Why is Superman far & away the most popular candidate in these vs. matchups? Particularly if he’s as much of a sissy as his detractors are always claiming he is lol i.e. if the Hulk is really stronger, the Flash really faster, Thor really more powerful, the Silver Surfer really more noble, the Martian Manhunter really more terrifying, Batman really smarter & more dangerous, Wonder Woman really better in battle, Goku really superior, etc & etc. If he’s such a pansy pushover…why keep asking these questions?Why does Superman still, to this day, in our age of high technology, computers, miracle cures, & spaceflight, at this writing fully 79 years after his creation in the throes of the Great Depression in the mid-1930s, generate this level of interest & debate & fascination & vituperation (from both his villains in comic books & his detractors in real life)?Why does Superman still have this “golden aura of invincibility” around him like a halo of ineffable light, no matter how many panels selectively cribbed from the world wide web (almost always out of context) seem to show him down & out & beaten (even by a pack of puppy dogs lol)?Why is Superman still so special, no matter how many of the thousands of subsequent comic book characters…all of them his children, in the literary sense, not rivals or peers…or outright clones & knockoffs show up (e.g. Hyperion…even to the point of being a member of the Squadron Supreme, a knockoff of Superman’s team the Justice League…Gladiator, Sentry, Blue Marvel, Mister Majestic, Apollo, Samaritan, Plutonian, etc., etc., & endless etc.)?Why is Superman still so venerated & revered, no matter how many fictional creations exist that recast shards of Superman’s characteristic attributes, no matter how awesome & popular they are (e.g. strength = the Hulk, speed = the Flash, justice = Batman, strength wedded to the power of charity = Wonder Woman, overall goodness & boy scout-ism = Captain America, awkward nerd that conceals his heroic guise of red & blue under his everyday clothing = Spider-Man, noble alien & immigrant from another planet hiding in plain sight & using his immense powers to help humanity = Martian Manhunter, noble godly care for & protection of an adopted alien planet = Thor, noble self-sacrificing alien that cares about saving humanity = the Silver Surfer, trying to fit into wider society = Professor X & the X-Men, etc.)?For heaven’s sake, why?!?!But we know why, don’t we? Even if we can’t articulate it verbally, at some level, we understand why Superman is still the “gold standard” for comic book heroes as well as for brute attributes like strength, speed, & durability. Just like in this vs. battle, they always measure such things against Superman. He is the measuring stick. He is the (impossibly high) bar. The reasons are lying there, inside your subconscious, even if you’ve never thought much about it or studied it. The reason why is very simple:Superman is us. Our very best “us.” “Us” as we would like to be.He is “us” on our best days. Being our best selves. Doing the best things we are most proud of. Superman is good. Superman is brave. Superman is kind. Superman is strong. Superman is self-sacrificing. Superman is enduring. Superman is noble. Superman has faith. Superman is humble. Superman defends the helpless & fights for those who can’t fight for themselves. Superman is just. Superman is fair. Superman cares more about others than he does about himself. Superman is thoughtful. Superman is helpful. Superman saves the day. Superman maintains relationships with others. Superman defends life, & understands the value of life…any life. Superman never gives up, not on himself &…especially…not on others. Superman works hard to support himself & his family. Superman is honest. Superman never, ever puts the ends before the means & tries to justify his behavior on the basis that an erstwhile good goal is worth cutting corners along the way there. And so on. All the living qualities that define the word “hero.”This is a nice list of a few reasons:50 Reasons Why Superman is The Greatest Superhero EverYou could probably make it 150, you’d be here all day listing it all out.Superman embodies, in one man, all that & does all that & is being all that as our stand-in & on behalf of us, the readers, in the pages of comic book publications. Month after month. Year after year. Decade after decade. No matter how much changes about Superman over time, that part always stays the same. Because that’s at the heart of who he is, as a character. He’s a mirrored reflection of our best qualities & attributes, as human beings. Our ideal selves as we would truly like them to be. And not just for our own ends, but for our world as a whole.We understand, at a deep level & without having to spell it out, that if we lived those qualities & attributes Superman evinces without so much as a second thought or doubt (& that we all possess, veritable superpowers), the world we live in, starting from where we are now, would be transformed into a much better place. For everyone.Put another way: Superman is an archetype. Of all that is best about us. Superman is a symbol. He symbolizes hope for humanity, that if we just hang in there & never give up & keep doing the best that we can, all will come right in the end & the day will be saved. Superman is an idea. The idea that good & right will prevail not because of might, but because they are good & right. Superman is an ideal. Our ideal selves.It has been said (correctly) that comic books are modern mythology, our culture’s answer to the myths of olden time. That being the case, Superman sits squarely at the very center & heart of that modern mythology. Not only would it not be there in the form we have come to know it without him (he was the pioneer & father of the medium), it would not be a pop culture monument & as ennobling to the human spirit as it is.Long story longer, we don’t think all these things or have these noble sentiments about Goku, the Hulk, the Flash, Thor, Batman, Wonder Woman, the X-Men, & so on & so forth. And that is why, in that sense, they will never be able to topple Superman. Superman has not only a head start in the publication history that can never be vanquished, he also has a grip on the center of who we would universally like to be if we could & when we can, our archetype, our ideal, who encapsulates goodness & right to a greater degree than any of the others. He can’t be beaten because of who he is, & what he represents to us as a people. And as long as human beings remain human beings, that grip is unshakable. Superman is bigger than a mere comic book (or anime) superhero. He is something more.That’s why the answer is always Superman.15. Depends on the circumstances.Project Hertz - Due to his hearing being more sensitive than other's, higher pitch noises through techniques such as Angry Shout, Kiai Shout, Vice Shout, God of Destruction's Roar, God of Destruction's Cry etc. can disorient Clark and cause pain in his ears, leaving him vulnerable in battle. At Hypersonic frequency his biophysical structure would become disrupted to the point where even his invulnerability will not protect him. When the 853rd Century came around this is the one weakness Clark never overcame.Project H.F.I.L. - Like the Phantom Zone, H.F.I.L. (as well as the rest of Other World) exists outside Time and Space. So by bringing Clark to Other World say via Instant Transmission/Instantaneous Movement etc., he'd be powerless, and there's no Spectral Class G (Yellow) or above stars for him to regain them. Think of it as a ladder. On the bottom rung is all of space. Higher up is Hell and then Snake Way. At the next level are the planets of the four Kais who oversee their parts of the universe. And higher still, above the four Kais and all the rest is the Grand Kai's planet.Project Fair Play - Project Fair Play is an A.R.G.U.S. Project used in the Justice League: Gods and Monsters storyline (and animated movie) where A.R.G.U.S. Troops, and Vehicles are armed with laser weapons that mimic Red Solar Radiation, and Superman can't defend himself against them. The Z-Fighters/Z-Villains Energy is not only a source of light (as it reflects off other surfaces, it can be seen from a distance, and it can light up dark area's), it's also a source of heat (Goku using a Kamehameha Wave to cook a Giant Octopus, Mercenary Tao using Energy to heat a bathtub of water to a temperature that would scald an ordinary person, Gohan using Energy to light fires whilst living in the wilderness etc.). So obviously you've got Visible Light, due to the heat you've got Infrared, and once you add the Thermodynamics you’ve got Ultraviolet. VL, IR, and UV all have one thing in common. Sunlight (The way an Energy Attack can easily disintergrate solid stone, or an Energy Aura can easily create a crater when a Z-Fighter/Z-Villain is powering up, both of these would require a temperature of 3,000 Kelvin or higher. 3,000 Kelvin is the temperature required for a heat source to give of the amount of UV present in a star). So with a Red Energy Attack it would be like using a weapon that mimics/imitates Red Solar Radiation. With a Red Energy Aura whether it's a Natural Aura, Kaioken, or Super Saiyan God it's basically like fighting a version of Metallo who emits Red Solar Radiation instead of Green Kryptonite Radiation.Project Unfair Play - Many years ago Lex Luthor created a building called the Science Spire to channel all of the Chi Energy on Earth to destroy Superman, unfortunately it was rendered ineffectual before he could do this. However it's not the Chi that's used by the Z-Fighters/Z-Villains, it's Chi that is used by Chi Wizards i.e. It's Magic. If it was the Chi/Energy used by the Z-Fighters/Z-Villains he wouldn't be able to weaponise it because this form of Chi/Energy is a natural accessible energy whereas Magic is a supernatural accessible energy. In order to weaponize the Chi/Energy he'd have to use an Electromagnetic Radiation (such as Light/Photons) in order to turn it into an Opposite Polarity. In order for the Z-Fighters/Z-Villains to do this, instead of gathering Energy and firing it they'd have to disperse it creating a Hemisphere of Energy. Any Solar Radiation that passes through it becomes Gamma Radiation, basically the Photons within the Solar Radiation split into Electrons and Positrons which aren't electromagnetic making them useless to Superman, but when these particles come in contact with one another they don't become the Photons they once were they become Gamma Photons. This is possible due to what Piccolo tells us in DBS about how Goku and Beerus' Energy are charging up the particles in the Atmosphere. It takes 1.022 MeV to split a Photon Particle which is literally effortless. Based on how many Photons are within a Cubic Metre the amount of Gamma Radiation the Energy Disperse creates within a hemisphere with a 3 mile radius will drain Superman of all his strength in literally less than 20 seconds. Within a hemisphere with a 5 mile radius his strength would be gone in literally less than 4 seconds. Based on how fast light travels Goku could pull this off before the two of them finish their introductory speeches, but in case not the Afterimage Technique, and the Multi-Form Technique would be good as backup strategies. In comic books, animated movies, and live-action, exposure to Gamma Radiation severely drains Clark's powers and causes his skin to decompose. Gamma Radiation is much stronger than Solar Radiation, to Clark it's more or less his Opposite Polarity.Project Time Warp (DC One Million only) - A question I always ask with this one is the Time Period. Does the battle take place in the 21st Century, or the 853rd Century? If the battle took place in the 853rd Century because Clark has overcome all but one of his former weaknesses (Super Hearing), I'd go with Project Hertz, or Project H.F.I.L. If the battle took place in this Time Period there's no Super Spectral Class G Star and it will be centuries before the Sun (and other stars) evolves so Clark can't sustain his powers under the stars of this Time Period meaning he'd lose them like JLAlpha Superman would, but due to Clark being pure blooded I'd say his would last longer since his 853rd Century descendant Kal Kent only possesses a tiny fraction of Kryptonian DNA. However Project Unfair Play could help speed up the process which would then allow Project Fair Play to be used in the fight.Conclusion:Project Hertz, H.F.I.L., or Unfair Play would be the best strategies. Project Fair Play can neither win or lose this battle because the forms Energy Aura is silver, and no stars give off Silver Solar Radiation making it worthless, but in DBS: Broly Goku does use a Red Energy Attack.P.S. These strategies aren't limited to Goku, they can be used by other Z-Fighters/Z-Villains.Despite Superman's capabilities no matter how powerful, or illogical they are, there are ways for Goku to defeat him.16. Okay let me put the myth to rest that Goku would beat Superman.First off, what version of superman are we talking about? Because Cosmic Armor Superman, Ultraman (Quantum Superman), Darkseid Superman and maybe even Hunter/Prey Superman or Superman Prime One Million. Can Goku lift infinite? No. infact no has seen him even move a planet i believe, we have multiple feats of Superman moving/picking up stupidly heavy objects like the time he picked up a book of infinite pages:Yea he had help from Shazam but half infinite is still infinite. Or like the time he held a blackhole in his hand:And these versions of Superman are vastly inferior to the Supermen i listed above. Infact Goku is so incredibly inferior to Cosmic Armor Superman that Goku could use Hakai for the rest of his life on him and Cosmic Armor Superman would only think Goku as a mosquito. He's so powerful that he writes his own story canonically.He can just write the story of an outcome where he wins.The power gap between any version of Goku and Cosmic Armor Superman is impossible to fathom, oh Goku can use instant transmission? Well so can Cosmic Armor Superman and guess what? He doesn't need to touch you he can just will it, but he can send you to a region in space so incredibly far away that even with Goku's instant transmission it will take literally forever for him to return using it.People like to make the argument saying “He's a robot not Superman” but that's not true, he's sentient and he has every experience, feelings memories and thoughts that Superman has ever had which makes him what he is. In fact this version of Superman is so above the gods of destruction that no amount of Ultra instinct will save any of them from the inevitable slaughter this Superman would rain down on them and this is not a joke or a noncanon superman this is a legitimate version of himself. He even fought someone who can do the exact same thing as he can and still won.17. Definitely Goku.Goku has super strength, light speed, flight, ki energy, and many, many other abilities that come from these abilitiesSupeman has super strength, superspeed, heat vision, artic breath, and flight.People say that Goku could beat Superman in his base form, but I think that's a little extreme. In my opinion, Goku would need to level up to only SSJ2 to beat SupermanOn his behalf, Superman is very strong as well. He once lifted the whole weight of the Earth for five days straight, flew through a black hole for two months straight, and punched the Earth with such a might that literally shook the entire world. Moreover, Darkseid is powerful enough to just....rip the....well, to rip open a portal with his bare hands. And if Superman beat him, that makes Superman stronger than Darkseid.But if you want to play the game like this, then do remember that Frieza was strong enough to wipe out an entire elite race - which was most feared throughout the universe - along with their whole planet with just a single attack. And that wasn't even his final form! In Frieza Saga, Goku beat his form which I remember being his third or fourth form, which obviously means that Frieza is at least stronger four times in his final form than he is in his first form. But we know that in DBZ, powering up powers you up more like 50-60 times. So if Goku beat him, then it automatically means he is stronger than such a powerful being. And that was for Goku's power only as SSJ1. After that, he is able to power up to SSJ2, SSJ3, then SSJ God and now SSGSSJ. On SSJ1, his power is multiplied by 50. On SSJ2, his power as SSJ1 is multiplied by 2. On SSJ3, his power as SSJ2 is multiplied by 4. Super Saiyajin God multiplies his base power by 200,000. And I have no idea how much his power is multiplied at SSGSS.That's just too strong. That was Goku's power for you.Besides that, Goku's speed is faster than that of light. Yes I know, Superman's speed has also been said to be FTL in many versions, but do remember that its only his flying speed that is FTL. Superman cannot fight at speeds FTL. But Goku can. Goku can fight at speeds faster a thousand times faster than light.Then Goku has his ki attacks, including some attacks like the Kamehameha and Dragon Fist. Superman has no chance against either.Now I tried my best to be as accurate as possible, but I know that I might've described Superman's power less than it really is. However, I'm 100% sure that I have not exaggerated Goku's power. Still, Goku emerges the stronger one between the two.18.Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is capable of giving the perfect answer to this.Both modern Goku and Superman have serious contention around their feats, especially the higher up the chain you get.Some will deny the use of scaling, giving their answer based on feats alone, which is a major disservice to both characters.Others will deny feats from both characters, calling them outliers or inconsistencies, which doesn’t work for either character, because they both hold back.I can’t give you the answer, only you can interpret the victor, I can however, advise you on what you should avoid.People who quote screw-attack and their videos are going to be wrong, in every scenario. This is because they do not care who wins, as long as it creates controversy. Want proof on how bad they are? Here is them saying that Goku becomes half as fast in super saiyan, which is a confirmed 50 times multiplier to all base stats.People who do not give fair measure to both characters are going to be inaccurate. If they show superman or Goku’s best feats, but show the other characters worst feats, then they are clearly biased, and an unreliable source.This also includes those who give one character the benefit of the doubt, but deny that right to the opposition. There are many intelligent people on this site, but they can all be blinded by favouritism.If the person starts insulting others in the opposition during their answer, it is a red flag. Now insulting someone is not the same as pointing out flaws in their argument, the difference is always going to be respect.There is no highest authority. Each person will interpret the story a different way, but some will fall to author quotes to back up their points. This is not a good way to argue with somebody, because of a little something called ‘death of the author’ (Alex Johnston's answer to How would you explain 'The Death of the Author' to someone who's in third grade?Finally, if somebody says that a character wins because no other character exists for the same reason as him, they are pandering. A persons interpretation of the meaning behind a character, should play no part in a versus debate. If someone says that Goku wins because he exists to overcome any limit, it means nothing. If somebody says super man wins because he exists to be the best, it means nothing.With all of that said and done, you are now ready to go into the debate that is Goku vs Superman. Be respectful, and you should get your answer.19. Goku will destroy Superman. Goku can beat a planet buster with Kaio-Ken.Sure, Superman can destroy a planet too but Goku was just in Kaio-Ken. Super Saiyan Goku can beat a guy who destroyed Planet Vegeta with one finger.Goku Super Saiyan 2 can destroy at least Solar Systems. Sure Superman can pull the Solar System but that’s only Goku Super Saiyan 2.Super Saiyan 3 Goku’s power can be felt through all of the universe. His scream can ripple the ocean, and can destroy buildings. Super Saiyan 3 Goku can at least destroy a Galaxy.Sure Superman can maybe destroy Galaxies but this is only Super Saiyan 3.Super Saiyan 4 Goku can beat dragons that are Overpowered. He can at least destroy multiple Galaxies. Superman can do that too but this is only Super Saiyan 4.Super Saiyan God Goku has been shown to be able to destroy an entire universe. Superman cannot do that. Goku went toe to toe with Beerus. A God of destruction.Super Saiyan God Goku can already exceed time’s speed as it is shown in the Manga for Dragon Ball Super, Hit vs Goku. Superman can never go that fast. Superman’s punches aren’t strong enough to destroy an entire universe while Goku’s punches can.Then, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku (Super Saiyan Blue) can destroy the Universe without Beerus. Super Saiyan Blue Goku can beat Frieza who’s power level is like 3 billion. (I forgot.)Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken Goku can travel so fast, he can go faster than time, ignore Hit’s time skip rule and still move after Hit uses full power. He can destroy Beerus in this form.Superman cannot destroy beat Goku. Even if he beats Goku in his Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-Ken form, Goku still has Ultra Instinct. Ultra Instinct allows Goku to dodge every attack without thinking, attack without thinking, and also defend without thinking. Basically Ultra Instinct allows Goku to do everything without thinking. Not even Beerus mastered this form.Even if Superman did beat Goku in his Ultra Instinct form, Goku still has one trick up his sleeves.Hakai! Hakai can erase anything, even ghosts from existence. Superman will be erased from existence and Goku would win.Superman can never win.20. Ok, I don't remember that Goku can breathe in space. As far as I can remember when he defeats freeza, freeza taunts him to go around looking for a ship which he can start, because he can't breathe in space, where as freeza can. So I am going to assume he can't.I am also assuming that he doesn't have krypotnite because a) he isn't that smart and b) He fights fair. He gives cell a sanjo bean before cell fights Gohan, because otherwise its not a fair fight.Assuming Superman can at most lift 100 tonnes (correct me if I am wrong)Scenario: Barren planet with yellow sun, breathable atmosphere. Assuming Majin Superman or superman under control of Poison Ivy for the sake of battle.Round 1: Normal goku starts fighting, Powers up and unleashes punches. Both are fast but I am going to assume superman is faster than Goku at nearly all points. Superman blocks punches returns with punches. Goku gets hit a few times. Goes into Kiyokane mode, Superman allows because he also fights fair. Goku's blocking and hitting is now much better. He has faster speed and the advantage of being actually trained in martial arts. (Superman has no such training). Superman gets hit but a standard Goku punch doesn't have much force (I am assuming it can lift a 1-5 tonne weight but not more, as his training in the kai world happens). Superman tries to use laser eyes and frost breath but goku is fast enough to dodge. Goku fires kamehameha but superman's frost breath blocks it. Desperate straight attack. He punches superman in stomach but gets blown away by his return kick. Superman laughs at the his attempts and goku smiles as he wipes blood. Round superman.Round 2: Goku goes Super Saiyan mode. Still possibly slower than superman but nearly as powerful (Goku as Super Saiyan lifts the weights with kai with no issues). Maybe slightly still less powerful but still powerful enough to cause damage. Superman's parries are well blocked by goku's martial arts training, except for an occasional blow. Goku defends mostly, but releases an occasional punch damaging superman. The two finally separate, Goku charges up Kamehameha, superman allows because he underestimates the techinque. Goku fires, superman is is still oblivious to its power, tries frost breath, fails and gets hit substantially. Superman is now slightly tired, his smile wiped off, whereas Goku now has a smirk. Round GokuFinal Round: Goku has had enough of this nonsense, powers up to level 3, says he is more powerful and finally goes straight to level 4. Superman's strength is no longer a match for Goku's strength. Speed nearly equal, but fighting abilities make all the difference. Superman tries to fire full power punches every time, which slows down his parry rate. Goku evades and blocks for fun before return kicking him. Superman is blown away at a distance, looks at Goku. Goku smiles, instant transmission. (instant transmission happens at light speed. but in a different dimension. Only start and end points are in same dimension, so even superman's super vision can't see it.) Goku disappears and appears right in front of him, battering him with volleys, superman tries to block them but is very rarely successful. He is getting badly beaten up. Tries laser eyes at small distance but goku evades. Superman tries to fly away and gain distance. Goku starts charging kamehameha. Superman knows he can't handle kamehameha plus instant transmission, so flies back in. Goku fires, superman dodges half allowed by Goku intentionally firing it slightly wide. Superman punches goku with whole strength Goku gets knocked back. Superman tries to volley punches, goku dodges some, blocks some, and finally lets him hit some to show off total dominance. Superman though using full might, is already tired, volley doesn't have much power. Tries power punch, which Goku spots and blocks and counters. Fires in a elbow from top to send Superman crashing into the ground, several meters inside. Round Goku total dominanceBy now we have a clear winner. But to induce a fatality, Goku starts charging a spirit bomb, doesn't need much power as superman is already in shit state. Superman finally climbs out, sees Goku preparing an attack, unguarded with arms above, charges blindly with full power. Goku is waiting for this moment.Full charged spirit bomb, instant transmission, in face of charging superman before he knows it. Bam. KO with a fatality.Correct me if any hypothesis in this answer are wrong. Haven't read much superman, so might be missing some of his powers.21. Superman is a character that suffers from power discrepacies, as he has many iterations of himself been done by different writers.The most powerful version of superman backed by feats is certainly silver age’s.Some people might argue that Superman Prime One Million is the most powerful one.But he really doesn’t live up to the hype around him. Most of the things that people say he can do are exaggerated out of context or never shown on panel.Hell he is even known as the featless wonder in Vs. Forums.Other people might say that he is the most powerful version:That’s Thought Robot, a.k.a. Cosmic Armor Superman. The living incarnation of plot devices (Yeah that thing that looks like a DVD is a multiverse).But he isn’t Superman per se; he is a robot created by the monitors and controlled by Superman and Ultraman.Then we have Goku at his most powerful:That’s Super Saiyan God Blue + kaioken x10.As a Super Saiyan God, Goku and Beerus 3 consecutive and equal punches nearly destroyed the whole universe.That above is Goku with that power, amped by Super Saiyan Blue AND by Kaioken x 10 so you get the picture.So the battle comes down to if you consider Thought Robot to be Superman or not.If you do then Superman wins.If you don’t (and FYI I don’t) then Goku hands down, because Superman Prime OM lacks the feats and Silver Age Supes isn’t on his level.So all in all Goku wins.22. Trust me, I know the answer to this. I know both very well. If they’re both in their normal forms, so no ss for goku and superman ain’t like superman prime one million or the though robot, just like normal pre-crisis superman, then superman wins with not much difficulty, since he has more impressive feats and beat goku in every physical aspect. In Goku’s base form, it has been noted that his trades of punches with Beerus has had the chi spread throughout the universe, but that was Beerus’s chi and Beerus was controlling his punches at the same time, because if he wasn’t, Goku at his base form would have been obliterated. Also, it did not spread throughout the universe, it was felt within the galaxy they were in, and universes have billions of galaxies. Goku is not even near Pre-Crisis Superman in his base form in DBSuper.But, if Goku is in Super Saiyan Blue plus Kaio Ken times ten and Superman is the Thought Robot, his most powerful form known to date, I think the Thought Robot Superman still takes this, I have answered this in another question. I have explained and proved that the Thought Robot is at least 52 times more powerful than Super Saiyan Blue plus Kaio Ken times ten Goku. That form of Goku is around galaxy level busting, while it has been stated that this version of Superman has the power to destroy around 52 universes or more. When Goku and Beerus were fighting and trading fists, the energy around the blasts spreaded across the universe, but that does not show that he is universal level, yet, because if Goku truly was universal level, no matter how much control he puts in his punches, he would’ve destroyed the planet he was on with Beerus and his fight with the assassin, Hit by accident. Goku even stated he was trying his best and he was maxing out his power, yet if he was anywhere near universal level, the mere energy or shockwaves would have destroyed the planet. Superman has accidently destroyed galaxies with mere gestures in this form.But, I’m aware that Goku got an update on a new god form. That form looks cool and all, but it won’t be as powerful as the Though Robot still, at most the new Goku form released like about a week ago is almost at universal busting, but not quite yet. I think this form of Goku would have the capability of destroying a dozen galaxies, which is like thousands of planets with his strongest kamehameha.A true character in DBZ with universe busting powers would be Beerus, who is the God of Destruction.Not even Beerus or Whis would have a chance against, the Thought Robot, the Thought Robot has very similar powers with Whis with the addition of a lot more.Superman wins in almost every scenario. (People who are saying either one of them wins with ease are biased, I am using my knowledge on both and backed it up with evidence and facts. Neither of them would win with ease and this would be a good fair fight overall. To be honest, why would they even fight, when they are both good-hearted and they will most likely team up lol. btw, I am not a fan of either of them, I am a Naruto fan.)23. Goku.I know, I’m a horrible person…But listen, Superman at his strongest, can one punch Goku. But Goku is SO FAST that Superman at full power would be getting nothing besides a SSJ4 Gogeta vs. Omega to the face.Batman has stated that Superman can go just past the Speed of light when he's serious, but that doesn't always mean full power. So I'm even gonna use Screwattacks limit of 9.4 billion km/hr.But using the Snake road theory, I calculated exactly how fast Goku can move. As a SSJB, Goku can move 280+ trillion TIMES the speed of light.Superman wouldn't even be able to touch Goku without being Afterimaged.And if Superman stays in the sun long enough to get full power, eventually the radiation will only weaken himself due to his cells not being able to hold such energy and practically just destroy the structure and start dissolving into nothing.If Goku can keep dodging Superman’s attacks anyways, eventually he’ll be able to fight him 1v1 due to his loss in Energy.So, I’ve decided I’ll give you calculation for SSJ4 and above since I didn't do very well explaining in my opinion.SSJ4 is either 10 x SSJ3 or 500 x SSJ3, 10x comes from the fact that Baby was already SSJ Vegeta before transforming into Golden Oozaru which is SSJ + Oozaru (Oozaru is 10x multiplier) and the fact that if the multiplier was only x10, it would be no doubt that Baby would absolutely stomp Goku. 500x maybe because the SSJ didn’t count onto the transformation when he changed and it would make sense when it comes to Power Scaling.So going off the weights back in the tournament when King Kati showed off his strength, if you calculate the weight, the planets gravity and the gi he was wearing (weighted), his max strength would count to either 1.6 million tons (x10) or 80 million tons (x500). Of course these both SCALED, there's no way to know exactly how strong Goku is if there is no official guide or it’s revealed on the show. His speed can go from 15.9 billion mph (x10) to 79.9 trillion mph (x500).Now, onto God levels.SSJ3 is said to be Multi-Solar System - Galaxy level (Galaxy ruins the multiplier to SSJG), SSJG is a known UNIVERSE level for every punch (excluding ki techniques).There's about 100 - 200 billion Galaxies in a Universe. Which mean SSJG is about 100 - 200 BILLION times stronger than SSJ3 if we highball SSJ3 Goku in his current state, which I believe is the case due to his immersive amounts of training between the Buu saga and the god saga.In which case, let me multiply this…SSJ3 max strength is calculated at about 1,602,770 tons (if you want all reasons why I've calculated this, go to my profile and find “It's been debunked that Goku can destroy a universe. Why do people assume he can beat Superman?”) in which, SSJG is 100,000,000,000 - 200,000,000,000 times stronger than SSJ3, I've calculated the strength as 160,000,000,000,000,000 TONS AT MAX. And this is only a low balled SSJG, if we high ball it… 320,000,000,000,000,000 TONS AT MAX. That's pretty damn good.But that's only SSG, so what happens when we turn this…Into this.Well, Goku had stated that by mastering his God form, he gained the ability to stack his SSJ with his SSJG form, which makes sense why they called it Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan at first (because it's god stacked with Super Saiyan.) before calling is Super Saiyan Blue.This means that the equation for SSJB is SSJG x SSJ, or both high and lowball multiplied by 50.160,000,000,000,000,000 x 50 = 8,000,000,000,000,000,000 TONS320,000,000,000,000,000 x 50 =16,000,000,000,000,000,000 TONSAND THAT’S NOT THE END OF IT!Goku has also STACKED Kaioken with Blue, which means he can times his power by 2x - 10x (At the time of the beginning of the Univesal Tournament.Let me calculate this now,Goku, lowballed strength, can lift from 16,000,000,000,000,000,000 - 80,000,000,000,000,000,000 TONS from Kaioken - Kaioken x10.Highballed is, 32,000,000,000,000,000,000 - 160,000,000,000,000,000,000 TONS from Kaioken - Kaioken x 10.Now, the funny thing is that,This is Earth.5,972,000,000,000,000,000,000 TonsThat is how much the Earth weighs, in other words, even if I highball the shit outta Goku, he CAN NOT lift the planet. But, he can destroy 50 Universes with his power, which shows you the difference between lifting power and striking/ki power.Everything that follows God and it's description of power is showing how much force puts into a single punch, that force, matched with an equal and opposite force, managed to shake and almost Annihilate the entire Macroverse they lived in (3x the entirety of our Universe.)But I've only described his physical feat, shooting a full power Kamehameha Wave is absolutely devastating and WAY more powerful than anything Goku throws physically, with his own body, at anything.But in the end, I believe Goku would absolutely destroy Superman.24. This question just adds to a very long list of questions asked over a LONG period of time. First people would ask if base goku could beat superman, then super saiyan goku, until now there is yet another form to goku’s character.At this point, it's safe to say that goku would have another few forms up his sleeve, while superman will stay like he always has.Now if I were to state the complete obvious, ultra instinct is pretty OP. But does it make superman look weak? The answer to that would be no. Because while goku is getting new forms and changing into a god-like character, superman has been sitting on Earth suppressing his powers while charging up on the solar energy that is constantly being fed into him.In one way or another, superman could surpass goku in power just by sitting In the sun and taking in its radiation. An example would be kingdom come superman, where he sat near the sun long enough to become completely immune to kryptonite and magic, or the all-star superman comic series, where superman soaked up enough solar energy to lift 200 quintillion tons.Now obviously goku’s ‘universal breaking’ ultra instinct power should give him enough power to flick superman away like a fly, but power like that hasn't been shown to stop superman in the comics.I will agree that supermans durability is inconsistent at times, but judging from the moments in comics when he survived the source wall collapsing in on him, or when he survived the big bang, we see how durable he can be. And its important to note that these feats were both accomplished in his regular form. (No special sun tanning time)So I think it's safe to say he could survive goku’s attacks unless goku gets something to weaken superman (that isn't really Goku's style).There is something that I'm not very sure about though, which is how durable the ultra instinct makes goku. Because superman can certainly take a hit (And dish them out), it makes me wonder how much torment goku would survive in this new form.To be honest, I doubt using ultra instinct in death battle would change much, because the hosts of death battle spoke about what superman was. And he's a man that is always at his best, but chooses not to go all out. He is a living battery with no real limit to how much energy he can obtain… I know all that might make me sound like a “superman fanboy” but in the end, superman has A LOT more feats to back him up.And yes, supermans powers levels may appear weak at times, but he is a character that is either a living god that can sneeze away a solar system, or a dude that can only lift a single car. Yes he is so inconsistent that one minute he will get knocked out by a guy like lobo, and the next minute he will be surviving explosions built to destroy entire solar systems. But in the end, the feats of durability that stick are the characters strongest ones, just like their feats of strength or speed. And I'm %100 sure that there would be moments in dragon ball that make you question goku’s consistency.In the end I would say that the battle would go the same as it did the first time, but superman won't be finishing fast.25. Finally, a non-Sonic question!Superman vs Goku. A fight long debated.Chi vs Solar! Saiyen vs Kryptonian!I say Superman.Superman can literally see the world BETTER THAN THE SMARTEST HUMAN ALIVE.The “Blinding DBZ-GT-Super” Fighting Speed is insignificant.He can rival a holding-back Flash in speed (he’s even faster than light!)Also, Kid Goku isn’t light-speed. Just A Robot explains this amazingly well.When they fight, Superman is the stronger puncher. He can bench-press the world for 5 days straight (depending on a Superman).So here it is.DCEU Supes: Close, but not quite. He’s fast and strong, and he’s on the speed of a DBS fighter (watch Man Of Steel and Justice League), but not strong enough to challenge an Ultra Instinct Goku. Maybe he’d beat a Super Saiyen 2 Goku.DCAU Supes: If he let’s loose, he’d hurt Goku BAD. If he holds back, it ends quickly. Either way, he’d loose. He’d beat Super Saiyen 2 Goku.Silver Age Supes: No. Just…no. Beats anyone. Anytime.Post-Crisis Supes: Eh, in the words of Death Battle, he was still learning. His mythos was rewritten by the Crisis on Infinite Earths, so he’d lose. Beats Super Saiyen 4.New 52 Supes: He’d lose, but not quickly. They’d trade blows for some time, then Superman pulls out--and that is where this gets dicey. Can Goku tank a Super-Nuke?50/50. Beats Super Saiyen God.Superman Rebirth: He wins. Combine the feats of Post-Crisis with an experienced Superman. He’s fast enough, he’s strong enough, he can take Zod while blind, and he’s just insanely fast (He’s Post-Crisis Superman who returned from Pre-Flashpoint). Beats Ultra InsAll-Star Superman: Eh…he’s strong. He isn’t all-powerful or anything, but he’s still massively, much more than New 52.Remember, New 52 bench-pressed the Earth and was tired. All-Star bench-pressed the Earth like he was grabbing a Doritos Bag and plopping down to watch the latest Game Theory.He’d beat Super Saiyen God Super Saiyen.Superman Prime K.Os hard.It’s heavily hinted at that this is basically the Super-Form of All-Star, so…let’s take that and multiply that. By a lot.He’d beat Ultra Instinct.26. A.) Superman has a healing factor and Goku has finite number of sensu beans. Superman will not fatigue if in sun and will heal from all injuries as long as his solar stores are filled to some degree. He refills them in about 5-10 seconds of sunlight exposure. Once Goku gets injured, he stays injured for a while (EX: that month he spent in the hospital after fighting Vegeta).B.) Goku has no access to Superman weakness. No kryptonite, no magic (the power pole is still attached to the Watchtower guys), no sun lamps. Goku's Ki is not magic. Magic is used by Bibidi and Bobidi. Ki is a real thing in Toaist and eastern medicine. Martial artists "use" this. The point of Goku is to show what a shit ton of Ki looks like in a fantasy setting.C.) You could argue that Goku can dish out more punishment, but Superman can flat out take more damage than Goku in any form. Hurting Superman without one of his weaknesses is nearly impossible. He has withstood black holes, planet explosions, can easily survive in deep space, atomic bombs, meteors and 100,000 volts of electricity.D.) Superman is a lot smarter. A lot. This is a problem because Goku has never outsmarted or worked around a foe's power And often times, this screws him over. A nice guy, but still really dumb.E.) But in speed (able to cross light-speed and faster), strength (able to move planet earth), durability and intelligence (see above), experience, power-versatility, Superman beats him. They are probably matched in concentration. And while Goku has trained more, Superman has been in end-of-the-world situations far more than he has. He saves earth weekly, and Goku does it about once an arc.27. How many times this question has been asked and how many times people have given the same answer again and again well people already know who is more powerful and more stronger it’s GOKU GOKU Goku.Superman wasn’t and never will able to beat Goku and that’s a fact whether you want to accept it or not.Now, simply to put comic is filled with complex dimensional analysis while in dragonball super toriyama never specified any dimensional structure in dragonball well he made dragonball’s narrative simple to understand for younger audiences.Now comic fanboys always debunks Goku’s universal feats Saying that all are hyperbole and statements while using illogical fact. Well to simply I’ll show superman’s own statements that are just statements not feats because in their own words that statements cannot be taken as a form a proof so why not I play with their own game.For last week now they have come with a absurd claim stating superman is 6th dimensional as he one punched world forger who is the son of perpetua, now not only I laughed so hard at their claim I was also thinking that their standard intelligence would be low compared to average IQ because they might be failing their cosmology classes where they got an F grade because they clearly lack the concept of understanding how dimensions work.Next, comic fanboys always try to showcase that dragonball is 3-dimensional and only consist of 12 universes when toriyama never specified any dimensional tiering and never showcased how big is dragonball universe or how many light years dragonball universe is ,but these fanboys comes up these absurd ideas even toriyama never know about it. Because other than dragonball super they know nothing about dragonball or there are other dragonball verse like xenoverse or heroes.Not only I’ll debunk those superman multiversal claims from those aforementioned fanboys and I’ll also showcase how big dragonball verse is .First I’ll debunk superman being limitless and multiversal,Here superman states that his punches hit him so hard enough to shatter planets but here even logic fails much less science so superman fighting konvikt where superman punched him with force comparable to shatter planets only managed to destroy few rocks lol I think writers don’t know what is kinetic force much less Newtonian physics. Alright I’ll try to explain if I try to punch someone in earth with a force comparable to shatter planets well kinetic energy from the punch alone would have destroyed a sizeable chunk of a earth and I didn’t even told you that shockwaves generated would have destroyed the earth. but logic only applies to dragonball not to comic by fanboys.Here superman charging at black Adam with force comparable to split the moon in half but again logic fails because if you are charging at some one with a force this much then you have to apply 2 times the force to counter the kinetic force and negate its effects which in result again would have destroyed the earth in process ,in order for superman to apply braking force but logic only applies to dragonball by comic fanboys.Now I’ll explain how kinetic force works,the kinetic energy of an object is the energy that it possesses due to its motion.It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity Having gained this energy during its acceleration,the body maintains this kinetic energy unless its speed change.In classical mechanics , the kinetic energy of a point object (an object so small that its mass can be assumed to exist at one point), or a non-rotating rigid body depends on the mass of the body as well as its speed.The kinetic energy is equal to 1/2 the product of the mass and the square of the speed. In formula formwhere m is the mass and v is the velocityof the body. In si units, mass is measured in kilograms,speed in Meter per second and the resulting kinetic energy is in joules.For example, one would calculate the kinetic energy of an 80 kg mass (about 180 lbs) traveling at 18 metres per second (about 40 mph, or 65 km/h) asWhen a person throws a ball, the person does work on it to give it speed as it leaves the hand. The moving ball can then hit something and push it, doing work on what it hits. The kinetic energy of a moving object is equal to the work required to bring it from rest to that speed, or the work the object can do while being brought to rest: net force × displacement = kinetic energy, i.e.,Since the kinetic energy increases with the square of the speed, an object doubling its speed has four times as much kinetic energy. For example, a car traveling twice as fast as another requires four times as much distance to stop, assuming a constant braking force. As a consequence of this quadrupling, it takes four times the work to double the speed.The kinetic energy of an object is related to its momentum by the equation:For the translational kinetic energy, that is the kinetic energy associated with rectilinear motion of a rigid body with constant mass m whose Centre of mass is moving in a straight line with speed v, as seen above is equal toThe kinetic energy of any entity depends on the reference frame in which it is measured. However the total energy of an isolated system, i.e. one in which energy can neither enter nor leave, does not change over time in the reference frame in which it is measured.Now concept of kinetic force has been cleard, let’s move further. The answer is incomplete because I have yet to finish my answer so wait……One of the more ludicrous absurd claims by comic fanboys is that in lifting Spectre, Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern lifted infinite weight.Spectre says "They're (Superman and Wonder Woman) two of the mightiest beings in the Universe and yet the weight of my unconscious form was nearly too much for them. The Spectre's body you see is composed of consciousness. A cosmic consciousness that contains eternity itself. And eternity is heavy."Eternity is a measure of time. It does not have a weight, nor does a conscious, which is a spiritual concept. There's no context to the weight other than it being heavy and the fact that the strain caused Hal Jordan to collapse. So superman,Wonder Woman And hal Jordan were unable to lift spectre which though isn’t specified how heavy he is nor time has weight and yet they say superman lifted eternity lol comic fanboys will be fanboys.Another multiversal claim,The source wall is a set of highly durable walls that house knowledge. The Infinity Man puts Superman in a prison of solid light as he tries to interfere as The Infinity Man battles Scott Free. Scott Free destroys a wall.Superman "He has destroyed the wall! The entire length of the structure is disintegrating! Does this mean..."Metron "The end of the universe? I always thought so but.."The blast destroys Superman's solid light prison and knocks him out. Metron, Scott Free and The Infinity Man are unharmed. Metron is a New God and thus has New God psychology and is immortal. Whoever he is a scientist and has not shown anything to suggest God like physical powers. The universe of course is not destroyed. That Superman was knocked out by the blast is consistent with other planetary level explosions.In the following issue, Death of the New Gods 8, while Darkseid fights his son Orion, their respect planets, Apokolips and New Genesis collide and merge. Superman is knocked unconscious by the blast which clearly suggests the destruction of the source wall was a planetary level explosion.So superman who got knocked by source wall explosion got knocked out by planetary explosion it’s not dragonball fanboys targeting comics it’s comics itself is contradicting superman past feats.Here pre crisis superman blowed away an entire solar system in complete vacuum where there is no atmospheric pressure idk what to say here either dc writers are big time scientists or the real world scientists are complete fools who should follow comic science or should listen to fanboys with insane scientific discoveries on quora made by our beloved fanboys.Now to explain it better, I have to explain what is vacuum.Now Vacuum is space devoid of matter. An approximation to such vacuum is a region with a gaseous pressure much less than atmospheric pressure. In engineering and applied physics on the other hand, vacuum refers to any space in which the pressure is lower than atmospheric pressure.outer space has very low density and pressure, and is the closest physical approximation of a perfect vacuum.Now the same pre crisis superman was swat away like a fly lol now where’s the logic, superman who can destroy solar system in complete vacuum can’t even beat Grundy who’s not even city level ,again logic dies in comics because if superman really punched Grundy with same amount force which blowed an entire system he would have obliterated the entire planet with kinetic force alone and shockwaves could have destroyed the entire system but not even a building is destroyed which shows dc itself is destroying superman’s character and contradicting it’s feats and making a mockery of comic fanboys who don’t use logic while thinking which they embarrass themselves in debates.Another problem with dc is the inconsistencies made by the writers here superboy prime who got knocked out by a single universal attack from monarch and punched dimensional wall to bring Jason Todd back.Was unable to beat bunch of kids who are not even planetary in strength. If we go by feats prime who can punch dimensional walls and survive universal attacks could have easily obliterated the teen titans and other along with the solar system from the kinetic force generated from his single punch.but sadly DC writers are not that brilliant or there comic fanboys.Now come superman’s fight with world forger oh man,which these fanboys claiming him multiversal, either they don’t understand dimensional analysis or they failed there astronomy classes which I’m perfectly sure.So some how 3 dimensional beings could enter 6th dimensional without getting affected and retains their physical attributes wow bravo to the dc writers for thinking this much.Well in real world science a 3 dimensional beings cannot exists in a higher dimensional plane like 4th dimensional forget about 6th dimension which is much higher and is beyond 3 dimensional beings idea of concept which they can’t even fathom but somehow due to involvement of dc writers they bypassed those barriers and entered 6th dimensional plane wow while retaining their physical characteristics without getting affected and bypassing physical laws.2. So how come a 6th dimensional being like world forger needed help from 3 dimensional beings who infinitely times weaker than him to fight other 3 dimensional beings damn comic fanboys are class of their own especially dc writers.And somehow 3 dimensional beings landed a hit, punched and gave a beating to a 6th dimensional being wow no words to express so how come 3 dimensional could even got the opportunity to touch a 6th dimensional being who exists in much higher dimension and cannot be comprehended by 3 dimensional beings but somehow they managed to beat him lol logic dies again thanks to dc writers and it’s fanboys.To explain how dimensional tiering works, first I need to explain what is Fourth dimension which is called time dimension by real world science and by comic standards.A four-dimensional space or 4D space is a mathematical extension of the concept of three-dimensional or 3D space. 3 dimensional space is the simplest possible generalization of the observation that one only needs three numbers, called dimensions , to describe the sizes or locations of objects in the everyday world. For example, the volume of a rectangular box is found by measuring its length, width, and height (often labeled x, y, and z).Mathematically, four-dimensional space is simply a space with four spatial dimensions, that is a space that needs four parameters to specify a point in it. For example, a general point might have position vector a, equal toTo understand the nature of four-dimensional space, a device called dimensional analogy is commonly employed. Dimensional analogy is the study of how (n − 1) dimensions relate to ndimensions, and then inferring how n dimensions would relate to (n + 1) dimensions.From the perspective of this square, a three-dimensional being has seemingly god-like powers, such as ability to remove objects from a safe without breaking it open (by moving them across the third dimension), to see everything that from the two-dimensional perspective is enclosed behind walls, and to remain completely invisible by standing a few inches away in the third dimension.By applying dimensional analogy, one can infer that a four-dimensional being would be capable of similar feats from our three-dimensional perspective.So you understood what I’m trying to say a 4th dimensional being is infinitely times higher than 3 dimensional beings while a 6th dimensional being is infinite times infinity is beyond 3 dimensional beings idea of concept which 3D beings can’t even fathom or comprehend but somehow they can punch 6D beings because of dc writers.Now this entire series was inspired by dragonball as jorge himself admitted that this scene is tribute to his favourite series which is DRAGONBALL even dc writers himself are fan of dragonball .So those fanboys who are claiming this feat to be multiversal then they should revisit their astrophysics classes because they clearly got zero in this subject I think. Now you know what’s wrong with feat well superman who punched world forger so hard which was impossible because superman is a 3 dimensional character while forger is 6D but still he hit him so hard thanks to dc writers only put a small crater on the 6 dimensional planet where other 3 dimensional beings miraculously survived the aftershocks without getting a single injury lol again logic dies here.And If superman really would have been 6D multiversal his punch alone would have destroyed the entire 6D space but nothing happened and only a crater was made lol kudos to dc writers.And if you think putting a time space crack around the planet is a multiversal feat well my friend going by that logic then characters from Buu saga are already multiversal because they were able to tore the dimensions just by screaming and buuhan was going to collapse the entire dimensional walls .Even a kid like gotenks tore the dimensional walls just by screaming.Or when black Goku tore time space fabric with his scythe alone which connects this realm to otherworldly realm.When vegeta blowed away an entire dimension just by powering up this what an actual dimensional feat looks like not some crater on the planet lol.So dc logic works only in dc not outside any fiction so if a weakling like superman can do this just imagine Goku and vegeta with their ki infused would’ve wrecked havoc in dc verse.Now comes how big is dragonball universe as opposed to what comic fanboys think because other than making absurd claims they don’t have sufficient knowledge.Dragonball is amalgamation of various dragonball realities which include z,super,xenoverse and heroes. And heroes is a separate reality or outerversal which exists in real world it mean the actual world where we live in.This what dragonball super verse looks like with alternate timelines and heaven and hell dimension which itself the size of universes. Every multiverse in dragonball contains its own separate heaven and hell dimension along with other otherworldly realm plus time space and 12 universes along with other future and past timelines making it infinite.Now a single dc universe is trillions of light years on a single time space fabric meaning it’s a single stack lying on time space fabric with trillions of light in length while each dragonball universe contains its separate heaven and hell dimension which are separate universes itself meaning 3 stacks are placed on the time space fabric with unknown light years in length because it was never specified how many light years is a single dragonball universe .So even if dragonball universe is comparable to real universe it means its still unknown because by current technology standards we only managed to find out that our observable universe is 46.8 billion ly which by means it’s not 46.8 billion ly it means that by our current technology we only managed to deduce this much size of the ever expanding universe it means that universe could be trillions or quadrillions or could be infinite as it’s ever expanding.So each dragonball universe is combination of heaven and hell dimension which makes 3 stack on time space fabric while single dc universe is a single stack of trillions of ly on time space fabric so it proves that 3>1 by mathematical standards.Now further,Here time Kaio shin who controls time and is the weakest Kaio shin in xenoverse explains them that each scrolls contains a timeline which makes time Kaio shin multiversal alone as she can control any of the timeline lol.Now I’ll give you a little glimpse how powerful are xenoverse gods here time Kaio shin told that beerus casually can wipe out dimension of time and can erase all history aka timelines which make beerus multiversal+ alone.Here towa is capable of stopping time on a multiversal scale.demigra is able to use an attack that sends beat across time and space.Here time Kaio shin explains that everything will destroyed along with dragonball world And outerversal world like Dragonball heroes which is an actual iteration of real world.Time Kai shin further explains that there exists higher dimensional plane where only gods resides and dark demon realm where demon livesHere demon king demigra who was encompassing entire dragonball reality along with all time space it’s not just 4th dimension well the entire time space and other higher dimension and Goku defeated him at in base form without going god form and he also took multiversal time bomb from demigra at point blank range without breaking a sweat this is the true definition of a true multiversal+ being not making some fancy crater .Every character in xenoverse range from 4D to 6D to unknown higher level even time Kaio shin who is the weakest is 4D while Goku in base is alone 6D and if you stack his forms he is beyond 6D that’s why xenoverse is Not taken into consideration because xenoverse and heroes are the definition of overpowered which most of the comic characters can only dream off.Now further moving to part where at which point Goku exceeds superman well it was simple ,during Buu saga Goku at ssj3 exceeded regular superman and post crisis superman.Goku defeated kid Buu who was galaxy to universal level as already seen when he went in rampage on destroying planets and galaxies.In super Goku at base is universal and in mui state he is multiversal well don’t listen to these comic fanboys as I already debunked there every claim all they do is make stupid absurd claims which holds no ground to actual facts.Nearly destroyed the whole universe just with mere punches alone and that too accidentally which Goku wasn’t even aware off after that beerus nullified the whole universal energy.Stalemated toppo who warped the entire infinity an infinite higher dimensional plane which exists outside the db verse beyond space and time and even energy itself which is composed of photons was disintegrated while touching the shroud made of hakai.This puts toppo alone at low to mid multiversal levels.Goku when unlocked UI in this state just by flexing his muscles and walking he shook the infinity and infinity space lol and here you think superman is multiversal by making a crater.And stalemated jiren who transcends time itself meaning his powers transcends to higher dimensional plane which is above 4th dimension and you know why I said 4th dimension because in comics 4th dimension is time itself.Lot of fanboys downplay this feat Saying that jiren transcends hit’s time skip which I mean they don’t have a slightest knowledge about dragonball. Well it was was vados who made that statement after witnessing jiren’s powers(suppressed)which not only transcended hit’s time manipulation abilities it also shook the infinite realm with his powers alone which were suppressed as jiren never went full.And angels don’t lie because they have full control on time space and dimension well don’t believe it see it for yourself .And you know why I said jiren’s powers transcends 4th dimension to 5 dimensional and possibly above well see it for yourself .Read it well clearly written that 4th dimension is time.Which means both Goku in mui state and jiren transcends to 5D and possibly above well I’m not making any absurd claims its there feats speaks for themselves and I’m not even overhyping them.Next we have gogeta(part Goku) While fighting broly there punches were alone shattering the very fabric of reality and breaking the dimensions apart and that too casually.And for why earth was not destroyed well it was simple ‘perfect ki control with minimal ki leakage’ which was already explained back in early days of super which these fanboys don’t have a slightest idea about.Well if you want I can show 100s of scans from xenoverse,heroes and super basically what you saw right now was just a tip of an ice berg well if I have displayed more powerful feats from xenoverse and heroes then it would take whole hour read the answer and I don’t have that much energy to write it.No matter whatever these comic fanboys claim or cry facts are facts and the only possible iteration which canon defeat super Goku is strange visitor superman for that there is xenoverse Goku.As I already said I don’t hate dc well it’s there fanbase especially superman fanbase who always shout that superman is more powerful than Goku and when they are debunked they start bashing others.Well it’s their own fault for making a mockery of themselves because instead of shouting at dragonball well complain it too dc writers for making so much inconsistencies and loop holes and contradicting the feats achieved by superman in past with present. It’s not dragonball’s fault if most of the comic characters are weak compared to dragonball standards.And don’t start what you can’t finish especially to those fanboys who deliberately downplay and start these kind of debates.28. So Once again We have A Question on One of THE Most Debated Topic on Social-Media Platforms.Before Starting the Answer, I want to make it Clear that I'll take A Completely Neutral Approach (So Don't Go by The Attribute after My Name).So hold your breath and stay with me until the end. I'm sure you'll surely learn something positive 🙂If I describe the question in other words, The O.P. asks for A Specific-version of Superman from which He's No Longer More-powerful than Adult Goku.Now, there're some stuff that needs to be addressed before we begin the discussion.That is : “ Inconsistencies ”.The One & Only Thing which is Used Time and Again to Debunk All The Feats Goku has Achieved Thus-far.I need to address this because I know that some people will surely put it up in the Comments-section as they have done so in all of my answers.To those people, my response will be -There are Inconsistencies in DC Too !!I can give you Multiple-examples where Logic ceased to be in the course of the comic ::This Scan is from Post-Crisis (PC), where Superman collided with A Shadow-moon to stop it.From The Author's statement, it's clear that Superman gains Near-infinite Mass as he approaches The Speed of Light. The Author also states that he can go Faster-than-Light if he wants :But the same PC Superman which is capable of pulling His Own Body which has Near-infinite Mass & even beyond, finds it hard to pull ⅓ of The Earth :This Scan is from Post-Crisis where Superman throws A Solar-system away from Earth :The Solar-system was So Close that It was colliding with the buildings. But It was a incredibly small one by mass. That's why it's Gravitational-pull wasn't capable of destroying even a city.Simple Physics tells us that Objects of Smaller-mass orbit Objects of Bigger-mass.Afterall, That's the same rule abiding which The Earth where Superman resides was orbiting Its Sun.So The Planets AND The Sun should've started orbiting around The Earth or collided with The Earth anyway when Superman was pushing it away. More so because the planets were Incredibly-small. Even smaller than a city.Instead, the planets continued orbiting Their Sun & went where Their Sun was going.Here, in another scan from Post-Crisis, We see “Death” saying that Even Kryptonians die when their time comes. But Superman will live on & on even when “Worlds will Desolve & Universes will Perish”, simply stating him to be an Immortal-being having Infinite-energy by All-means.And rightly so, He defeats Death :But in another scan form PC itself, We see Superman dying.He would've surely died if He wasn't given blood & Sun-light :If he really was immune to death, Then he wouldn't have needed any External-help.Plus, Superman is A Living-battery storing Solar-radiation of The Sun/The Solar-radiation of The Sun along with The Other Suns from The Universe :Size of Suns = Finite.Thus, The Radiations of The Suns = Finite.Hence, Superman = Finite.He would Simply Die Exhausted if He Doesn't Find Solar-radiation for A Finite Period of Time !Still Death stated “Even After The Universe will Perish, Superman will live on & on.”This Scan is from Final-Crisis where The Authors describe “Cosmic Armor Superman” through His Own Thoughts about himself :He says : “I have Woken Up in A Body of Pure Thought”.Yet, After a few scans we see Something Leaking Out of “A Body of Pure Thought” :Things which Bleed/Leak are Mortal Beings & Machinery which are Subjected to Decay.Furthermore, we also see robotic-parts revealed because of his wounded cheek & forehead.Bodies of “Pure Thought” can't be harmed & bled in the conventional-sense of the term like mortal people or stuff because They don't have internal organs & blood to keep them alive/grease to keep their mechanical-parts mobile at the first place.Simply so because they're “Pure Thought” !Multiple occasions where Superman races against Flash :In all the occasions, We see Superman speeding without holding back. This means he's atleast 100–200 Times The Speed of Sound or Maybe EVEN Higher if we go logically (Speed of Light = 874030 × Speed of Sound) ?Now here's the problem.Flash's “Speed-Force Aura” negates the effects of harm on the surroundings from his Running in Insanely High-speed.But Superman doesn't have access to Speed-force !Then why can't a Huge Ball of Fire be seen around him ?And mind you that even The Most Aerodinamical-structure meant to reduce drag :Generates This kind of Fire while in the Upper-atmosphere where oxygen-level is quite low in such a tremendous speed :Upon re-entering The thicker-atmosphere :PC Superman catching a Spaceship which is coming WAAAY Lower than The Speed of Light (So slow that even Normal-people could react & it still generates a Heck lot of Fire because of re-entry) :And now comes The Rebirth where We see Superman Flying at a Speed which is Beyond “PHYSICS (4D)” ITSELF !!What Does “Beyond Physics Speed” mean ? What is the Best-explaination which can come to one's mind ?Infinite Speed !!But Superman's even more faster.Faster than “IMAGINATION (5D)” TOO !So Fatser-than-Infinite Speed it is.Faster-than-Infinite Speed would carry with It Stronger-than-Infinite Kinetic-energy.Then He Hits The World-Forger with A Stronger-than-Infinite Kinetic-energy :World-Forger, being hit, Hits the Ground with A Transferred Stronger-than-Infinite Kinetic-energy.The Earth takes damage. Now, The Very Fact that The Earth took damage means that A Part of that Stronger-than-Infinite Kinetic-energy got transferred into it.But, A Part of Infinite is ALSO Infinite !But World-Forger hitting The “Finite” Earth with “Stronger-than-Infinite” Kinetic-energy only leaves A Country-sized Crater :Even someone putting-forth the argument that It was A “6th Dimensional Earth” & thus It was Strong-enough & so it wasn't destroyed doesn't hold any water as In order to handle Stronger-than-Infinite-energy, An Object needs Stronger-than-Infinite durability in An Even Higher Scale.And It was NEVER stated, EVEN Briefly, Either by The Author OR by The World Forger OR by Any Other Character that This Earth was Anything like that.The only related-stuff we hear about this earth is from World Forger who says that he has gathered the best-variants of each & every person for this world.Then, in the same comic, We see World Forger talking to Batman (This is after Batman changed the Orbit of the Suns listening to World Forger as he wanted to test Batman's loyalty towards him by letting him kill Superman) :This is the Last time we see Forger reading the mind of Batman.And from this scan it is Crystal-clear that Forger knows that Batman is Still in Conflict (This “Conflict” being the Very Reason Why Batman set the Orbital-course of the Suns in such a manner that It comes close to Superman yet again in a very short time & replenishes him).But yet in the end when Forger bites the dust being KO-ed by Superman, We see him saying This :Firstly, This Statement Flat-out Opposes His OWN Mind-reading He did for The Last-time.Secondly, If Batman DID have The Thought of Giving Superman A Chance in His Mind (As stated by Forger in His Last observation), Then How could He not pick that & Catch Batman for Acting as A Double-agent ? How could He Miss Something So Vital from A Mere 3D Being which can Prove Fatal for Him ?Also, We see Forger saying “If Anything” he knows, then it is “What stands a chance and what does not” :Having this ability, He tells whether Superman does stand a chance or not and Tells what will happen if he does :But at the end, We see people patting each-other & all :Then…We have This :4D & Even 3D Nerflings (Each One of Whom except Just 1 having “00” Feats which Surpass Even 3D) Able to Observe A Being coming at Beyond-physics, Faster-than-Infinite, Beyond-imagination 6th-dimensional Speed ......So Beings which have Finite(Possible) power & speed can see thing moving at Faster-than-Infinite(Impossible) speed.This means the meaning of “Impossible” is “Possible” in DC.So what is the purpose of introducing the world “Impossible” at the first place ?Now, Even after AAAAAALLLLLL These, If Some people STILL Believe that DC is Consistent with Its Feats & Correct in Its Logic, Here's An Answer from A Pro-DC Writer himself (Who co-incidentally has also received The “Top Writer 2018” Badge from Quora) :Rui Silva's answer to Is Superman’s strength infinite?BUT.… STILL….EVEN…Even After All This..I “DO NOT” Downplay DC for This Cause.There're 3 main-reasons for this :Writers try to fill their creations with Dramatic-essenceBeing strictly-logical in all-aspects will severely hamper the same.For example,In case of Cosmic Armour Superman, we see The Writer saying Cosmic-armour is “Pure Thought” because he wants to dramatically present CA as a being above all the ordinary. Something extra-ordinary.But, at he same time, he wants to portray his love towards Lois. That he can even fight-back from death for her.That is why he is shown to be bleeding profusely only to hear about Lois & getting up to fight Mandrakk with even greater determination.Even though it isn't correct logically.In case of The Rebirth Superman, yet again The Author dramatically wanted to present Superman as extra-ordinary.That is why while describing Superman's speed, he used such phrases as “Beyond physics” & “Beyond imagination”.But then again he wanted to present Superman as the “Ultimate Savior”. A silver-lining from the darkest of clouds which gives people a “Ray of Hope”.That is why showing the reactions of the members of the Justice League became important for him.Even though it isn't correct logically.Writers want the Protagonist to be a True-heroNow this is something which varies.[Warning !! Spoilers for “Avengers : Endgame”]---Pre-Endgame Hulk would kill anyone standing in front of his path to his enemy. Because this character is built that way.But the most of the protagonists in the history of comics & manga or anime which includes Superman and Goku, are presented as “True Heroes” who protect bystanders by all-costs. Heck, they even forgive the “Evilest” of villains or Someone whom No-one would forgive ::Superman :Goku :So with these kind of virtues, do you think The Writers would destroy the Earth along with the Multiverse each & every time during a fight only because their creation should be logical ?Logically, Superman running/flying at such tremendous-speeds would have generated a fireball so huge that it would end-up burning the whole city along with all its innocent-residents.But the Writer didn't want his protagonist to go on a Psychic Killing-spree. That's why he didn't show ultra-huge ball of fire around Superman.Even though it isn't correct logically.Similarly, Forger hitting the finite-earth with more-than-infinite kinetic-energy should have completely-annihilated the earth along with its innocent-residents.But the Writer didn't want his protagonist to go on a psychic killing-spree. That's why he decided not to destroy the earth.Even though it isn't correct logically.Writers aren't Scientists like Albert EinsteinSo we simply can't expect them to be all-scientific & maintain consistency throughout all their creations.Even the most-carefully written animes like “Death Note”, watching which 90% of the audience won't find any flaws, has some plot-holes in reality.Now That Being Settled, Can We Say DB Consistent with All Its Feats & Correct in Its Logic?The Answer is “No”.But does it matter ?Not necessarily. For the same reasons I’ve stated already.Now, addressing the main question :Between Goku and Superman, it’s really all about WHEN they fight. At what point do you think adult Goku surpasses Superman in raw power, though?I'll take The Rebirth here as it is the latest-icarnation of Superman & where Superman currently stands after all his past fights.The version of Adult Goku which surpasses Rebirth Superman is Xenoverse Goku.Xeno Goku has defeated Deamon-god Demigra.Demigra has showcased his capability to gather “Dark-energy (power of deamons)” from the Multiverse while being in “The Crack of Time” which is a Space-time completely-isolated from the Time-flow of the Primary Multiverse :Not only he gathered this Dark-energy, but also he did this without the “Supreme Kai of Time” herself knowing a speck about it.Demigra can go back/forth in time at his whim.He can move Other-characters possessed by his Dark-magic back/forth in time & to other timelines even when he himself is not physically present.He does this by his unparalleled mastery of Dark-magic which can work autonomously even when its creator is not there.He can project his existence both Physical/Non-physical at any time or timeline at his whim.Even its Non-physical avatars, which can't be hurt by normal-punches or normal ki-based attacks, are insanely powerful & capable of possessing powerful-characters on their own.So Base Demigra is easily 4D.But when Demigra got out of “The Crack of Time” :And consumed Toki-Toki :HE BECAME SOMETHING WHICH EVEN GODS WOULD FEAR.Now, you won't be surprised of the Superme Level of Powers that Demigra achieved consuming Toki-Toki (Which I'm going to tell) when you come to know what Toki-Toki ITSELF was capable of.Toki Toki, the Devine-bird, took birth FREAKING -“7 CRORE AND 50 LAKH Years Ago”.Each of his Hatched-eggs alone create New Universes.But you'll understand this kind of a feat is childish for this bird when you come to know that -He was the one who creates Time itself.Now Demigra's already-high powers, consuming Toki-Toki, went Completely Off-The-Charts :He started warping not only “Time of the Universe” but also “History of the Universe” & “Everything (The Entire DragonBall Verse consisting of Infinite Universes)” :After possessing such incomprehensible power, he decided to wipe everything out.And by “Everything”, I mean “LITERALLY EVERYTHING” :And incase if you didn't know, “History” when used standalone in DB Xenoverse means History of Infinite-Timelines.Here Trunks at first does say that in just 1 Scroll of Eternity, There lies “All of Time, All of History & Everything”, But later clarifies that the Scroll of Eternity was just 1 Timeline in reality. In fact there's an Unspecified Number of Scrolls of Eternities - Each having their Own “Time & History” :It is in these scans, we finally understand that there are an “Infinite Number of Histories”. As “History” translates to “Timeline”, it equates to an “Infinite Number of Timelines” :Infact, there's a specific “Saga” made on this particular-topic :Infinite History SagaThis proves that Demigra is 5D Level and already on par with the likes of Mxyzptlk.So Demigra was so powerful that he could Wipe-out Infinite-timelines (Which btw surpasses DBS Xen-o-Sama/Xen-Chan [Whichever you like !] already as He has only showcased his capability to Wipe-out 1 Multiverse).So after Wiping-out everything, he had decided to create his “Own-version of History”. In which, He would rule.So this puts Demigra to 6D Level as we’ve seen Only the likes of World-Forger have the capability to Make Universes or Build The Multiverse.Demigra has also showcased his capability to come-back again & again from Death or after being Completely-annihilated. He Not-only comes back from death, but-also comes back Even-stronger than before.This is also something which only the 6th-Dimensional beings have been shown to be able to perform in DC. Except for the law in DC that 6D beings can take re-birth only inside the 6th-dimesnsion. But incase of Demigra, no such limitations are stated.So, Demigra deciding to destroy “Everything”. But isn't there a problem in that ?But it seems the Evil-emperor had already planned for it :He Charged His Omni-annihilator Bomb & Blasted It towards Goku :He then quickly created a Void out of thin-air :And went inside it :Thus, Demigra went Beyond Cause-Effect.Nothing, Even His Own-self being Totally Erased along with The Entire History wouldn't effect him anymore.It was his Only-chance. Goku decided to face the Doom of the Entire-existence :And guess what ? He Neutralised The Ultimate-doom in his Base. That too Within Seconds & Instant-tansmitted in The Void of Demigra :Transformed into SSJ 3 seeing Demigra in his “Giant Demon God” form :Remember Goku didn't use his God forms.In future, Demigra's powers go even further than this :His Evil-ki becomes so powerful that it Transcends The Space-time Barrier of the DB Heroes & Goes Outversal, The residents of which universe see characters such as Demigra as mere Game-characters.He put even The Outversals in danger.Translation : You'll regret it ...! Fools who rebel against the New World God ... !!!Translation : This World and Your World - Save 2 Worlds in this battle !!!And guess what ? Goku has went toe-to-toe against him too when his powers-level in his 2nd-form alone becomes DOUBLE compared to the Final-form :An Outversal-level of power is something Superman has not achieved thus far.So here you have it !!Outversal Xeno Goku > 6D SupermanP.s. : If at any point of the answer, my words hurt you, I'm sorry (I've seen a lot worse from your side). I've written the sarcastic-parts with a spirit of fun and I wish that my readers will take these parts with the spirit of fun as well.So, Until we meet again,Stay fresh !Stay healthy !Thanks for reading 🙏29. Goku still hasn't came close, less alone matched Superman in any way.Here's something that was shown quite recently…So Superman was about to destroy all by himself under his own power an entire dimension that is as big as a DC Universe.Now Universes in DC are not as our Universe. They are far bigger.So here you can have an idea of just how big a DC Universe is. Where Adam Strange takes Superman 100 trillion light years from their previous position in space. And look at the background! They where still nowhere near close to its edge.So a Universe in DC is several hundreds of trillions to possibly quadrillions of light years across.Much bigger than our real world Universe and also much bigger than even Universes in DB.Still Superman was about to destroy something as big as a DC Universe all by himself. And he only stops himself from doing it really because he remembers that the Kents taught him better.So while DB fans can hold on to Goku and Beerus little energy waves that didn't destroyed much of anything in the Universe 7, DB fans also have another problem. Everything done after the Beerus arc showed and proved that the energy waves thing that were going to “destroy” the universe was a complete lie. Basically the Old Kai talked out of his a$$.If not then how do you explain that Goku goes SSB Kaio-Ken x10 against Hit and he doesn't even destroys the planet they were on. His power isn't even enough to shake the earth of the super dragon ball and reveal they were actually standing on a super dragon ball. Also just in case you want to say that the planet wasn't destroyed because it was actually a super dragon ball, let me remind you that Goku Black was able to destroy the super dragon balls after he made his wish so no one could undo his wish. So the super dragon balls aren't indestructible.Then we had the fight against Goku Black but more so Fused Zamasu, Goku and Vegeta go full out and the Earth isn't destroyed.Even when it was against Golden Frieza the Earth is not destroyed in the fight but only because Frieza in a last desperate attempt to avoid being killed again he blows up the Earth killing everyone except those protected by Whis shield. So Frieza survives and Vegeta dies. And thing would've remained that way if not for Whis turning back time.So more than once we got Goku in a form supposedly more powerful than SSG and the Earth suffers almost no damage when the actual fight is going on.The most recent examples were Broly surpassing the SSB power of Goku, he even fires several Ki blasts, most of them hitting the Earth and still none blew up the Earth.And if that wasn't bad enough we had Vegeta vs Moro, Moro uses his magic to control the energy and also lava of the Namekian planet and Vegeta needs to turn SSG to barely handle lava and Moro magic.But here is Superman fighting and also facing magic…So here Superman was fighting another much more powerful kryptonian named H'El. Superman is going all out and the one taking basically the full force of the blows was H'El. Superman never once punches the Earth, but still the strength of his blows is so powerful that throughout the entire planet from its core to the upper atmosphere, the shockwaves are felt.And don't forget! H'El body was the one taking the full force of the blows. Meaning that if Superman was actually punching the Earth, then on the first punch the Earth would be broken into pieces.And here Superman was facing Disciple. A being that had battled the old gods and had magic on a reality warping level. Or just in case I'm not making myself clear enough, Disciple could bend all reality on a beyond planetary level to his will.Still Superman through sheer raw power alone he beats Disciple.Vegeta in SSG and SSB wasn't immune to Moro magic. Hell, in normal Super Saiyan Vegeta is completely manhandled by Moro magic. Vegeta simply can't do anything against it. He actually needs SSG to even stand a chance against Moro magic and still it wasn't enough. Not even SSB was enough. And Moro most powerful magic so far is the power to steal the Genki of an entire planet and use it to enhance his own power.Moro even swallows Vegeta attack as if he was simply drinking a beer.Then of course we have the over exaggerations that some people calling themselves DB fans do that only leave true DB fans looking bad as hell.Like saying Goku shook the World of Void.Here's the problems with that:The one that made the claim was Kuririn which means the claim has exactly zero valueAnd it has sub-zero value more so because Beerus told us that the World of Void is infinite in size with endless nothingnessSo how can you shake nothingness?! You can't!And for Goku to shake something infinite in size he would need to have power beyond infinity, which seeing his power ran out more than once then obviously he doesn't have power beyond infinity. Hell, he doesn't even has infinite power, less alone beyond.So Kuririn was obviously like so many DB side characters blowing smoke out of his mouth. And only truly idiotic people took his claim as fact considering all the other things debunking what he said.Another interesting claim made by some DB fans is that seeing Jiren broke Hit time technique then he can break Time, and thus Goku also can break Time.But here is the thing. Jiren only broke through Hit power and not Time itself! Hit was the one trying to keep Jiren frozen in time and did not had the power to do so. So Jiren only proved he was far more powerful than Hit and thus not Time itself.To actually break Time you need to do something like this…Where two Supermen from different Universes fighting one another their punches were breaking Time itself.They weren't breaking someone else's power they were breaking Time itself with only the sheer raw power of their punches.And if that was not enough, Superman recently broke through Hypertime on his own. And in DC Comics, Hypertime is infinite time. Hypertime is where all timelines exist all at the same time. And still Superman broke free of a Hypertime trap set by Vandal Savage. So Superman didn't only broke Time he broke infinite time.Breaking Time and breaking the power of someone that can control time is not the same thing. So Jiren never broke through Time he simply broke through Hit power.A clear distinction that most DB fans don't make really because it doesn't suits their needs to make things bigger than they actually are.And then we have speed.Now in terms of sheer raw speed alone Superman is massively faster than light.So much so he constantly travels through Universe under his own power and we see him doing it. While with Goku we only see him use Instant Teleportation. Instant Teleportation by the way that only allows him to go where there is Ki. If something has no Ki then he can't teleport there. So all those that think Goku could simply teleport Superman to a red star are also fake DB fans really because they don't even know the limitations of Goku own techniques.So below you can see Superman returning from the edge of the universe after two months of traveling non-stop.So all the evidence necessary to see that Superman travelled from the edge of the universe to the Earth in only two months.Under his own power and traveling a distance far greater than even an entire DB Universe.While Goku speed feats are all way below light speed. Even Dyspo that Belmod stupidly said he had super light speed, was beaten by Hit, when Hit was using slower than light speed. More so we saw the Dyspo was only anticipating Hit time skip because of tell sign that Hit had and Dyspo was using his hearing to catch that sign and act before the time skip.But here's the thing. If Dyspo was actually faster than light as Belmod said, then it wouldn't matter if Hit time skipped for 1/1000 of a second. Dyspo would still be faster than Hit time skip technique.So Hit own time skip technique showed Dyspo was actually slower than light.Just in case you're wondering if you are moving at the speed of light or faster, then unless you can skip time to the nanosecond (10^-9 seconds) you can't match that person moving at the speed of light or faster. But considering Hit time skip worked between 1/10 of a second. Then obviously his power to skip time would never have affected Dyspo if Dyspo was actually as fast as they said he was.Also in terms of reaction speed.Below you can see Red Hood, Starfire and Arsenal in a ship in the orbit of Pluto.Superman wants to talk to Starfire but they don't want to talk to Supes, and thus they use a jammed instant teleportation machine to get back to the Earth.Guess who was already there waiting for them?…That's right! Even though the signal was jammed so it could not be traced. Even though they instantly teleported from the ship to the Earth, Superman mind is so powerful he decoded the signal and followed it to its destination, instantly.Or at least so fast that it matched teleportation.How many times have we seen Goku do anything like that? Never! We haven't even seen him simply instantly move from one point on the Earth to another point. Not teleport! Simply move.While in Superman case even light takes almost an hour to reach Pluto. So Superman even in terms of reaction and sheer raw speed alone he beats anything Goku has ever done.Now. In terms of resistance Saiyans are even more weak.So Goku and Vegeta were recently taken out by energy weapons.Now Goku I understand that he could be caught off guard but what about Vegeta that sees Merus taking out Goku and still he can't do anything to protect himself.Even Moro magic where he was simply throwing Vegeta to the ground. How weak can they get?When Superman has handled things like this…Traveled through several Black Holes!And just in case you're thinking of using that black heart technique of U2 to say Goku can also handle a black hole then you can give up.What the fighters of U2 did was use a Ki based technique that increased gravity. That was not a Black Hole! A Black Hole would've pulled everyone in the arena and even the stands towards the black hole. Hell, their very atoms would have began to break apart.Also a black hole has a singularity at its center and has a mass bigger than our sun. None of that was seen in the black heart technique! Hence they could have call it Ultra Black Hole Heart for all I care. If it does not behave like a black hole then it is not a black hole.For it to be a black hole then its gravitational field would've affected everyone on the arena and even the stands. But because it did no such thing then it was simply a black heart with no black hole properties in it.Superman has even reached a point where he once had to handle a black hole created by an Avatar of death meant to swallow up the entire universe.Not only did he survived the universal devouring black hole. But he actually escapes it and takes the fight to the avatar of Death.And actually beats the avatar of Death.So in a way Superman actually matched power with Death and won.Last time I checked Goku can be taken down by a blaster. He doesn't need anything as extreme as Death taking him out.So obviously Goku hasn't came close to matching Superman.And from a fan opinion to another fan, here's why Goku will never match Superman…As long as Toriyama or Toyotaro continue to supply feats that make the previous feats outdated or that are a complete contradiction to everything that happened before then obviously any versus fight is easily won by Superman.If DB isn't written consistently, and they got no excuse not to be, seeing it's always the same writer. While Superman has had thousands of writers over the +70 years of stories. Then of course DB debunks itself.The universal fist colliding destroying waves, were debunked by everything that came afterwards. And DB fans can't say that it wasn't because it was all shown and anyone wanting to debunk DB feats all they got to do is use DB itself.Also Dragon Ball needs better quality fans!Fans that can make an air tight case. Which most can not.How many times have I seen DB fans say that Burter from the Ginyu force was faster than light when he said this…So just because he thought he was the fastest being in the Universe that didn't made it so.Also some DB fans say Goku traveled from the opposite side of Namek to where Gohan was instantly.Problem is that the Anime showed this…So seeing the Ginyu force members can see Goku ship land that means he did not land on the opposite side of Namek.Also he uses Kaio-Ken to get to where Gohan was and both Burter and Jiece see the glow of Goku red aura way before he gets there.So what many fake DB fans defend as an FTL move was actually incredibly slower than light. It wasn't even 1% the speed of light.So if you want DB credibility to really be better and people that can defend DB for what it is and not what some people imagine it is, then I guess your best hope is that Superman fans also become DB fans. That way DB can have people that will stick to the facts and not what they want something to be.Until DB has those two things then Kakarot will never match Kal-El. Ever!30. Depends on what you mean by strenght.Strenght can mean many things like skills, values, lifting capacity, endurance or stamina, punching power, battle proficiency, etc...In general I would say that Superman is stronger than Goku in many ways, but Goku is stronger than Superman in many others.Here is an example:Here we see Superman benchpressing the weight of Earth for a long time, this shows that he has a lot of lifting capactiy and also great endurance or stamina:Superman also helped avoiding that Brainiac’s spaceship from Colliding with the Planet Earth:Which again shows he has a lot of lifting strenght, which is more like static strenght + endurance and high maximun strenght, endurance is like that you would expect a maratonist to have and lifting strenght what you would expect a weight lifter to have.And here we see him punching:His punches can topple mountains,And can be felt all the way down to the core of Earth and up to the farthest edge of Earth Atmosphere.Now lets see some times Goku has lifted heavy things:Here we see Goku lifting a water tank:And here we see him lifting some weights in King Kai’s planet at 10 times Earth Gravity:That doesn’t seems like much when compare to how much Superman lifts.Now lets see how Goku punches:Here we see that while he can’t lift much, his punches can endangere the universe.And it isn’t just said by the characters in the anime, but also by the narrator himself:And it is in both, the anime and the manga:Apparently Goku has higher “explosive strenght” which is the kind of strenght one uses to punch someone, to kick a soccer ball, explosive strenght is the kind of strenght you also expect a boxer to have.Superman has higher lifting /static strenght and endurance, but Goku has higher explosive strenght.There are other aspects that can count as “strenght”, for instance, if we by speed an agility, Superman’s speed’s is mostly based on long term speed gainning, which is mostly usefull when travelling throught outerspace as in the almost empty, frictionless space with no gravity he can continuosly accelerate and achive great speeds for travel, unlike Goku’s speeds that are mostly based on short bursts speeds, by which he can accelerate and disacelerate a very a fast pace with high speed bursts, which is also ineficient for long travel as it spends more energy and uses his stamina. Just like there different kinds of strenght, there are different kinds of speeds.Here we see an example of Superman accelerating:And here we can see what he can achieve after gainning speed through continuous acceleration /speed build up:However, remember that speed has different conotations, there is top speed, acceleration, and also pace, Superman has higher top speed and cruise speed than Goku in my opinion. But Superman’s cruise speed and top speed are not usable in the middle of a fight because of two reasons, (1) is that he requires a lot of time to accelerate over long distances and build up speed before reaching his top speeds, which means that he wouldn’t be able to reach those speeds inside of a battlefield, and the other reason (2) is that he needs large amounts of empty space to manuever at those speeds, again in a battle field one needs to manuever to dodge, hit, or avoiding collateral damage on to innoscent bystanders.Now, Goku probably has faster acceleration rate, agility, manueverability and also faster combat pace (the pace is the rate at which he is able to make changes, like punching and kicking in, dodging, parrying, moving forward and backward, etc…)Goku as a martial artist also have more combat instinct:And now, depending on how powerful its his opponent he might temporarely wake up the “Ultra” instinct:Goku’s speed has always been more about speed burst, relfexes and agility.Superman has higher top speed, but Goku has faster acceleration, reflexes and agility.What about durability:Well Superma’s durability really excels at having less amount of weaknesses:With this I mean that weird haxed things doesn’t affect him much:Examples:Here we see Superman survive an energy blast that transmutes everything it touches into fire. (The beam doesn’t sets things on fire it makes them become fire)Here is another oneIn this one he gets hit by ice that transmute anything it touches into ice:Superman can even survive omega beams:And here is him receiving part of a Supernova:Look at this, there is nothing that special about this one, this is just pure energy, not some weird transmutation thing:And before someone goes into “supernova’s are very powerful”, you have to take into account that Superman didn’t received the entirety of the energy, just a tiny fraction of it, because most of the energy expands outwards omnidirectionally into outerspace, unlike Ki energy blast which are highly focused energy attacks that concentrate most of the energy in a smaller volumes of space and smaller areas which makes them much more intense:That one knocked him out.In this one he clashes himself against a copy of the Moon, the clash end up destroying that Moon, but he gets knocked out again:And what about Goku:Goku do have more weaknesses than Superman in a sense, Goku have “human like” vulnerabilities:Goku can’t survive in outer space because of the lack of air:Although he can stay in upper atmosphere for a while:Goku is most likely somewhere between the stratosphere and the mesosphere in the picture above:This is a photo from stratosphere:Here he uses some energy shield to protect himself from Lavenda’s weird poison, while this shows he can be vulnerable, it also shows he can use his own powers in creative ways to counter his vulnerabilities against haxed attacks:That said, massive amount of ki or power can also bypass hax:Like when he was able to overpower Hit’s timeskip technique:OrLike when Goku shatters Hit time skip dimension by rapidly powering upBut it might be possible that Goku could also survive transmutation attacks as he can survive attacks that can even erase existence itself.He was shot with a hakai energy attack which can erase people’s physical body and their soul from existence.And of course, let’s not forget the fact that he and Beerus were punching each other with power capable of endangering all of the universe:Now lets talk about other skills.Here are some of Superman’s other skills:Heat vision:While heat vision have never shown anything that suggest planet busting capacities or higher, it has proven to be quite effective in battle for Superman, even if never a finisher. Superman can also use heat vision in other ways which are not necessarily in the middle of a fight or battle:Like helping to heat the planet by enlarging the field and distributing the energy over a large surface instead of concentrating like when he attacks.Or partially cutting a sea of water:Or like concentrating it in a very small areaWhich I gotta say is very cool, unknown if he can do something like that in the heat of a battle, since this seems to require a lot of concentration in the task and remaining in a stable fixed position like a statue for a while or if it would be useful in such a situation.Besides that, he also has his Freezing BreathWhich he can also use effectively in battle.The main advantage of Heat Vision in my opinion is the time of execution, as it doesn’t requires Superman to lead energy, he simply realises it, but it also has disadvantages because it drains him faster than physical attacks.Freezing breath has limited range, but it can be effective as a surprise attack.And Goku, well he has a lot of techniques:Goku can produce energy shields / force fields, even though he doesn’t use them frecuently:He has small energy blasts:While small energy blast don’t carry a lot of energy compared to other techniques, they can still produce damage be shot in quick succession to distract and slow down an opponent.One of the best advantages of Ki is that he can control it however he wants, he can increase it or decrease it and shaped it and shoot it in different ways to produce distinct effects.He can shoot small ki bullets like if he was ussing a gun but of ki, they might look small, but they probably have a lot piercing power:Goku can shoot ki attacks in multiple directions at the same time and use it to fight multiple opponents or counter multiple attacks at the same time:He can also use his ki to create energy landmine traps on a battle field so that when his opponents steps over them they will blow up:He can also put energy bombs and leave them in a stationary position in mid air to limit the movements of his oponents:He can also shoot multiple Kienzans in a single attack, which are rotatory energy blades capables of cutting through almost anything:He also have the Kameha:Which is a techniques in which he can pours large quantities of energys into a concentrated beam which since DBZ have been hinted to have planet busting capabilities:With that technique, Roshi destroyed the Moon:Goku overpowered a similar technique that was meant to destroy Earth:Cell said, he could produce enough energy and power to destroy a Solar System:And well, Goku’s Kameha clash agaisnt Beerus energy attack also endangered the universe:And he can also change the direction of his energy attacks in mid-air at will after he already lanched them, giving him the capacity of tracking opponents, and fooling and catching his opponents of guard:He did when he was a kid:Also against Raditz:Also made his attack follow Califla:Goku also knows the Mafuba, which is a sealing technique:And in the manga, Goku also has Hakai, which is a technique capable of erasing existence:Goku also has teleportation, which he can use in the middle of a fight to confuse his oponents, dodge attacks and appear behind or in front of his opponents for a suprise attack. And while not necessarily for battle, he can also use teleportation to travel to far places in the universe and even between dimensions.Examples are like whenever he teleports from Earth to King Kai’s planet which is outside the mortal universe, in the world of the dead and also when he goes to supreme kaioh’s realm which is outside the mortal universe and the other world:Another skill that Goku has is Ki sensing, by which he can feel the life energy signature of other beings and he can even scan entire galaxies billions of light years away from himself:Besides those, Goku also have his transformations:The kaioken:Which he can also combine with SSJB:And finally he has the ultra instinct omen and mastered ultra instinct:Overall, I would say that Goku is stronger, Superman do have some advantages on his side, for instance, his heat vision doesn’t requires to charge up, he can simply shoot it almost inmediately, his breath probably can’t travel as far or as fast as his heat vision, but it can work as an unexpected surprise attack.However, Goku still has higher versatily with his teleportation, energy shields could protect him against freezing breath or even heat vision. He massively overpowers Superman when it comes fire power, with his kameha, and his ki gives him great versatilly with a wider variety of attacks, from rapid small energy blast to powerful kameha and cutting power kienzans, which he can use in combination with other skills like teleportation, and ultra instinct, and that is not to mention that he also outranges Superman by a long shot, as we have seen energy attacks in Dragon Ball travel much farther distances than we have seen Superman use his heat vision and his freeze breath.Besides there is also the fact that Goku is also a better martial artist. Finally, there is the fact that Goku’s attack and conventional durability surpasses Superman’s by a long shot.That said due to Superman’s characteristics (like his unconvention high durability against hax, his lack of needing to breath air and his higher lifting strenght), there are still a lot of possible situations in which Superman might be a more suited or tailored to be a more useful hero than Goku, even if Goku is still a more powerful fighter.31. This is a delicate topic. I highly respect both characters and grew up with both.Superman lifted world's sometimes with ease. The sun can boost his power infinitely he does not have a upper limit.Goku and Vegeta can seemlingly lift 40 tons in base.You also gotta consider Superman is invulnerable to damage unless it's magic or kryptonite and ki is neither.Another thing to consider is Goku will never cheat in this fight and bring out kryptonite or try to take Superman somewhere else without a sun. He'd never do those things. He definitely wouldn't blow up the sun (a common argument for how he could win) that would just boost Supermans power in the solarsystem sized explosion and kill Goku. He once stated the core of the Earth's heat would kill him the sun explosion would be vastly hotter. Not to mention doing this would kill everyone he loves and the dragon balls.On to martial arts. I hear everyone saying Superman cannot fight (I mean the t.v. shows do their best to make him look like a dumb brawler so other people can help)Superman has been trained by the Batman and WonderWoman. Batman taught him pressure points and WW taught him how to fight and she is regarded as the best melee fighter in the world. He also took boxing lessons from Wild cat who is a well known and skilled boxer.Once you consider Ultra Instinct Goku would fair much better obviously. The thing is Superman has a martial art that is essentially MUI and more.Superman's Torquasm-Vo, and Theta State- essentially the same as ultra instinct (moving your body without thinking)-no time limit or cons such as a limiter-gives your probability manipulation-The ability to make fights instantly go in your favor-gives you immunity to attacks on your soul-Allows you to embody other versions of yourself (in supermans case Superman prime or superman kingdom come)-can give your enemies false thoughts they perceive to be true.-allows you to materialize anything you can imagine.-is so powerful it can effect high god tier reality warpers like DoninousBecause the dbs writers don't know what they're doing Goku in god form couldn't keep up with a light speed character he had to use blue just to counter. Goku should be miles and miles above light speed if you ask me but the big shots decided “nah he's under light speed”Superman is well over a million of times faster than light. And yes he can use this speed for combat speed he's displayed it before in the past.Goku doesn't have the strength to beat Superman. He can surely give one hell of a fight though. Superman would hold back at first and so would Goku gradually Goku would rise and rise forcing Superman to rise as well but when goku's out of ki Superman will still be ready to go for days.32. Isn't current Superman just Post Crisis Superman? He would still have the same limitations and comparable feats from post crisis.And…There are more. Why do I always post these? Why is it that I never let these go? These are two major storylines in which Superman was rendered unconscious by far less than what most fanboys claim. See, when it comes to this stuff, most people ignore the fact that the highballs aren't the average for these characters. I have a lot of Superman to read, but good golly, what I have read tells me that Superman is not always infallible, and he has problems quite often with little things.Superman in his current incarnation is pictured here struggling in the Earth's core. I am not sure if they ever explained why he was pictured this way (it may have something to do with an old detail in his powerset that would actually clean up ALL of Superman's inconsistency, but nevertheless).Universe threatening shockwaves, similar to the anime… Which was far more detailed with it. Is it really that hard to imagine Goku knocking Superman out when far less than Goku has managed to?Hell, considering that Superman at his lowest is not quite what fanboys say, is it hard to imagine this knocking him out?See, I say this to clear up all of the illusions about Goku and Superman, and all of the tiering crap. It does not matter who is more powerful because in my opinion:Superman at rare points in time when he is sure of himself and his justice gets boosted to insane levels for brief periods to contend with larger than life threats… But is still grounded enough where outside of a major Superbook, he can still end up like this:Mammoth and those guys that usually fight the Titans defeated him. Wonder Woman sliced Superman's throat and essentially won a fight (or proved she could have) against a blood lusted Superman… and about bloodlust, it doesn't make him better. Bloodlusted Superman failed to kill Batman in a fist fight. Yes. I am telling the truth.He was manipulated into thinking Batman was Darkseid. He had an entire imaginary boxing match in his head, lost his marbles, and tried to kill Batman thanks to Maxwell Lord.…If Batman, and Wonder Woman could survive a fist fight with an enraged, murderous Superman, why CAN'T Goku?Truthfully, if the most current incarnations were trying to kill each other, Goku would oneshot Superman currently.This is a magical technique that destroys whatever it comes into contact with, be it planets, moons, stars, orpeople. This would also be the death of Superman, who famously has no defense against magic beyond what normal people have.Buuuuuuuut… Neither of them are killers.If they fought, Goku would hold back once he saw Superman was not a martial artist, had low chi, and a different kind of aura. Superman would hold back because Goku isn't a villain, which leaves us at…A draw.Either could win.Superman is stronger physically, but Goku is more powerful energy wise. Superman may have a speed advantage flight wise for long distance, buuuut…The Daizenshuus are surprisingly specific with terminology. This is a light based attack.One that Goku intercepted twice; one time in a different body, the other time with a frog he threw. Goku is millions of times faster now, and that is not even a hyperbole. Trying to argue speed is not something I will do, so I will simply say that Superman is a bit faster.Goku is a better fighter, but Superman is way smarter.If they fought, it could go either way. If Superman uses his head first… Sorry Goku. Better luck next time.If Superman tried to go punch for punch, Goku is simply too good of a martial artist. Superman, come again next time.33. This is not even a question.Let us first look at the larger companies of Goku.In the fors ssjGod he managed to shake the whole universe, kingdom of the dead and kingdom of the Kaioshins including.Its speed surely surpasses that of Champa which has been calculated to be four million times that of light. Son Goku (Dragon Ball Super)In the unfinished ultra instinct mode he destroyed Kafla who could destroy a universe with a shot at maximum power.On the other hand we have Superman Rebirth.He declared that he could destroy a universe by will power alone.The universes in the DC are billions of times larger than those of DB.Staying inside the sun for a few seconds he defeated the World Forger, a sixth-dimensional guy who creates multiverses, and with the same punch he destroyed the multiverse created by the Forger.Doctor Manhattan noted that Terra 0 is built around Superman.He punched death in the face.He reconstructed the multiverse with only bodily energy,Superman wins without thinking twice.34. No Goku cannot or with little chances. Post crisis Superman was ‘Weakened’ when you compare him to the Pre-Crisis Superman.But he’s still very Powerful.Here it is said that one of his blows could Split the Moon in Half. Quite Impressive.Or when he utterly destroyed Mongul II almost in a single blow.Or when he just casually tosses a spaceship the size of the moon.Or when he did this to Wonder Woman.Or did this. Held a miniature Black Hole. And people seem to argue the black hole is barely the size of a dust particles. So it’s not as impressive. That’s not what is impressive the reality is he’s preventing the balck hole from expending and a regular balck hole would destroy the earth. Even at this size.Or a feat that people seem to ignore.He breaks trough time and space and cheats Death.And he is quite Durable.Able to absorb enough anti-sunlights that could have had the potential to destroy or vaporize half a galaxy.Oh and I forgot. Superman cannot be erase from History. So you can’t just kill him while he’s a baby.Technically Post Crisis Superman has this suit.He managed to scare the elemental Giants (God). That’s pretty insane if you ask me.He also beats a magical Dragon. And his magic didn’t do any damage to Superman.And Yes Superman is actually a skilled fighter.Oh and for those who keeps saying Goku can just turn the sun red. Superman still absorbed yellow sun radiation. He doesn’t become weak instantly.And he’s also not as vulnerable to Kryptonite as people think.Sueprman also functioned in a place that only works for a nanosecond. This is a speed feat.I could go on but this should prove why Post Crisis Superman would beat Goku. And I can’t deny Superman will not have trouble, if it’s Goku Ultra Instinct then Goku woudl have the advantage.But Ultra Instinct only last for a short period of time. And Goku does have one major downfall. Stamina. He eventually will not be able to keep up.35. NOTE:- This is a very long answer, so you are gonna have to scroll down a lot if you don’t like long answers, here is your warning.So let’s go into their strength, speed, skills, and hax abilities.Strength:-Goku against Beerus threatened to destroy the Universe by their punchesand before you say the shockwaves were getting strongerIt only appeared that way to Supreme Kai because Goku was trying to nullify the shockwaves from happening but the nullification wasn’t perfect so only the nearby area was safe from destructionAlso because of the plot as Earth can’t be destroyed because all the story takes place on Earth.It was because of Beerus that the Universe was going to be destroyed:- No, it was stated that the Goku matched him completely in strength, technique, and force.So Goku was hitting with the same force so he’s Universal too.Goku keeps getting stronger than thisGoku then absorbs the power in his SSJ formand then destroys a blast that knocked him out of his SSJ form in baseSo Base Goku is Universal.U7 refers to all these UniversesHeaven is the same size as the UniverseAs is the Demon RealmThe Kaio-Shin Realm is 1/10th the UniverseThere is also the Kaiou Realm, which is bigger than Heaven and HellWhich is the same size as the Enma RealmAnd the Hyperbolic Time Chamber is UniversalThese Universes have separate Space-Time ContinuumsOf Course, Dende’s Statement of it being a Universe>>>>>>Goku’s statement of it being Earth-sizedAnd these realms can’t be traveled through normallySo, Base Goku is actually Multi-Universal.Goku can stack his SSJ Forms on top of his baseand SSG and SSBIt’s shown again when Vegeta destroys the HBTCAstral Zamasu becomes one with the Universe and starts coming into another timelineand Goku said he could have done something if he had a Sensu BeanJiren is stronger than thisGoku faces a stronger Jiren without the use of KaiokenSuperman is destroying Space and Time, shaking Universes and rewriting timelines when fighting his Earth 2 self.And here’s this from the DC Website confirming the events:Superman has fought Nebula ManA living universeHe stated he could destroy the Phantom ZoneHe shook the heavens against Wonder WomanSo Superman also has Multi-Universal/Low Multiversal Feats, I would say Goku has higher Attack Potency as Vegeta has casually destroyed a universal time/space continuum just by powering up and has gotten a lot stronger since then and has higher AP.Goku-1 Superman-0Speed:-SSG Goku is stronger and faster than suppressed Beerus who traveled outside of his home which is in a galactic nebula to another planet in less than 2 minutesThis feat pushes him at quadrillions to quintillions of times FTLSSG Goku and Beerus’ fight lit up the entire DB Macrocosm which is 3 Universes largeI'll use our Universe's size, which is 94 billion light-years in diameter. Their attacks reached to the Kaioshin Realm almost instantly, so the time frame will be 1 second.94,000,000,000 light-years is 8.893087e+23km. 8.893087e+23km in one second is 2.9664E+18c, which is 2.966 quintillion times the speed of light. Goku reacted to Beerus' attacks which could move at these speeds, so it's would apply to their own speed as well.So, Goku absorbs the power into his base making his base speed at 3 quintillion times FTLGoku can stack his SSJ Transformations on top of it making him easily sextillions to septillion times FTLGoku in the TOP has attacks that can lit up the entire world of void which is infinite in size making his speed possibly infinite as a high end scaling from G.O.D. Toppo and Jiren’s breaking Hit’s Time CageGoku’s speed source:- Dragon Ball Super SpeedSuperman, on the hand, can fly between Star SystemsHe scales to Green Lanterns, who can cross Universes100 trillion light years per 10 hours = 8.7658128e+16 c(87.6 quadrillion times faster than light)Superman scales to Wonder Woman, who blocked the Shattered GodIn this infamous feat, WW blocks trillions of shards that crossed the 100 trillion light-years DC Universe. Now, let's say it was 2 Trillion shards that crossed the universe in a minute. 1 Minute makes sense, as it started moving in one issue and arrived in the next. However, it is shown in a way that implies little time had passed.So, we take 100 Trillion Light Years and multiply it by 31,622,400 to get the amount of seconds, which is 3,162,240,000,000,000,000,000 seconds. Divide by 60 for a minute, and we get 52,704,000,000,000,000,000. multiply it by 2 Trillion and you get 105,408,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. (105 Octillion) Remember, this is a Low-Ball.Calc from Benjamin Bas’ post Calculating some Speed Feats (Marvel, DC, Dragon Ball)So, out of the 2, the faster is definitely Superman, since he can keep the pace with Wonder Woman, who is ridiculously fast.Goku:-1 Superman:-1Skill:-Goku is incredibly skilled, ever since he was a kid, he had a knack for fighting and was genius when it comes to combat.He can copy any fighting skill of the opponent in mid-battle like how he used the Kamehameha which took Master Roshi 50 years to learnHe learned the after image technique and took it one step further after watching Jackie Chun do it oncelearns how to use eight arms technique after seeing another opponent use itHe can also fight without being able to seeGoku also learned how to use Ultra Instinct and learned how to attack using it in just 48 minutesGoku is a genius in fighting and can make plans on the fly and Goku can also adapt according to the situation so the same trick isn’t gonna work on himlike his fight with Jiren where he was using Ki Minesand using his Destructo Disc and pretending to get unconsciousjust to get Jiren to the edge and then use a hidden Destructo Disc to slice away the ground they were standing onand then teleport on top of himand he thought of all this in just a couple of seconds.Goku copied Beerus’ fighting style and attacked him in a same way and the same styleGoku can also predict Hit’s fighting style just by observing his fight with Vegeta and fighting Hit for a little whileHit is 1000 years oldand when fighting against Hit again with Hit trying to kill him, this happensBut then on the second attempt, Goku is able to barely dodge itand on the third try, he completely evades ithe also figured out another Hit’s techniqueSo yeah, Goku is a fighting genius and he is very, very good at fighting and is one of the greatest martial artists in all of fictionSuperman, on the other hand, has been trained by Batman and Wonder Woman on how to fight and knowsTorquasm Rao:- A Kryptonian Martial ArtsTorquasm-Vo:- A Kryptonian Martial arts that let the user fight on a mental planeSuperman has fought for a 1000 years with Thor and Wonder WomanSuperman once fought Kobra in Batman’s body, someone who is an expert in fighting and knows all martial arts on earth and defeats him while in Kobra’s Body inJLA:- Foreign BodiesSo, yeah Superman is also very good in hand to hand combat.While this is very close, I am gonna give the advantage to Goku as he is a Saiyan a part of the warrior race, his species is made for combat and he has fought people over 1000 years old and constantly pushes himself to the limit to better himself every single day, fighting is his lifeGoku-2 Superman-1Hax/Abilities:-Goku has many abilitiesKamehamehaFlightTeleportationKi SensingKaioken, a technique that multiplies his power several timesDestructo DiscMafuba, a sealing techniqueSolar FlareKi MinesKiaiKi protects and attacks at a cellular level as Frieza was reduced to atoms by TrunksCell was also destroyed on a cellular level by GohanSpiritual level as Goku was able to survive in a HakaiGoku also has hax resistance likeMental resistanceMatter ManipulationIt’s Vegito but still, Goku has gotten stronger than him and has resistance to itTime ManipulationSuperman, on the other hand, has abilities likeabsorbing the Solar radiation from a yellow or blue sun,telescopic visionmicroscopic visionable to view any part of the EM Spectrum,Super HearingHeat VisionTactile Telekinesis.Superman is also very intelligent as he is stated to be 1/1000th of Brainiac’s intelligencehas beaten Lex Luthor in a chess matchhe was able to figure out every bullet ever fired by a gun just by seeing it oncehe has figured out weaknesses in infinite programmable Kryptonian Technologyhe has recreated Kryptonian tech and extra-dimensional technologies through memory aloneSuperman also has moved in stopped time as he has traveled through Hypertime, fighting other versions of himselfHe can also phase through objectsFlareInfinite Mass PunchPower NullificationSo Superman has better hax/abilitiesGoku-2 Superman-2So, in my opinion, it could go any other way with any of the other winnings, but the question is asking can Goku win meaning if he has a chance which he definitely does.So the answer is yes, Goku definitely has a chance of winning.Image Source:- Google Images.

OCTOBER TERM, 1996SyllabusRENO, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES, ET AL. v. AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION ET AL.APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF PENNSYLVANIANo. 96-511. Argued March 19, 1997-Decided June 26, 1997Two provisions of the Communications Decency Act of 1996 (CDA or Act) seek to protect minors from harmful material on the Internet, an international network of interconnected computers that enables millions of people to communicate with one another in "cyberspace" and to access vast amounts of information from around the world. Title 47 U. S. C. § 223(a)(I)(B)(ii) (1994 ed., Supp. II) criminalizes the "knowing" transmission of "obscene or indecent" messages to any recipient under 18 years of age. Section 223(d) prohibits the "knowin[g]" sending or displaying to a person under 18 of any message "that, in context, depicts or describes, in terms patently offensive as measured by contemporary community standards, sexual or excretory activities or organs." Mfirmative defenses are provided for those who take "good faith, ... effective ... actions" to restrict access by minors to the prohibited communications, § 223(e)(5)(A), and those who restrict such access by requiring certain designated forms of age proof, such as a verified credit card or an adult identification number, §223(e)(5)(B). A number of plaintiffs filed suit challenging the constitutionality of §§ 223(a)(I) and 223(d). After making extensive findings of fact, a three-judge District Court convened pursuant to the Act entered a preliminary injunction against enforcement of both challenged provisions. The court's judgment enjoins the Government from enforcing § 223(a)(I)(B)'s prohibitions insofar as they relate to "indecent" communications, but expressly preserves the Government's right to investigate and prosecute the obscenity or child pornography activities prohibited therein. The injunction against enforcement of § 223(d) is unqualified because that section contains no separate reference to obscenity or child pornography. The Government appealed to this Court under the Act's special review provisions, arguing that the District Court erred in holding that the CDA violated both the First Amendment because it is overbroad and the Fifth Amendment because it is vague.Held: The CDA's "indecent transmission" and "patently offensive display" provisions abridge "the freedom of speech" protected by the First Amendment. Pp. 864-885.845(a) Although the CDA's vagueness is relevant to the First Amendment overbreadth inquiry, the judgment should be affirmed without reaching the Fifth Amendment issue. P. 864.(b) A close look at the precedents relied on by the GovernmentGinsberg v. New York, 390 U. S. 629; FCC v. Pacifica Foundation, 438 U. S. 726; and Renton v. Playtime Theatres, Inc., 475 U. S. 41-raises, rather than relieves, doubts about the CDA's constitutionality. The CDA differs from the various laws and orders upheld in those cases in many ways, including that it does not allow parents to consent to their children's use of restricted materials; is not limited to commercial transactions; fails to provide any definition of "indecent" and omits any requirement that "patently offensive" material lack socially redeeming value; neither limits its broad categorical prohibitions to particular times nor bases them on an evaluation by an agency familiar with the medium's unique characteristics; is punitive; applies to a medium that, unlike radio, receives full First Amendment protection; and cannot be properly analyzed as a form of time, place, and manner regulation because it is a content-based blanket restriction on speech. These precedents, then, do not require the Court to uphold the CDA and are fully consistent with the application of the most stringent review of its provisions. Pp. 864-868.(c) The special factors recognized in some of the Court's cases as justifying regulation of the broadcast media-the history of extensive Government regulation of broadcasting, see, e. g., Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, 395 U. S. 367, 399-400; the scarcity of available frequencies at its inception, see, e. g., Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. v. FCC, 512 U. S. 622, 637-638; and its "invasive" nature, see Sable Communications of Cal., Inc. v. FCC, 492 U. S. 115, 128-are not present in cyberspace. Thus, these cases provide no basis for qualifying the level of First Amendment scrutiny that should be applied to the Internet. Pp.868-870.(d) Regardless of whether the CDA is so vague that it violates the Fifth Amendment, the many ambiguities concerning the scope of its coverage render it problematic for First Amendment purposes. For instance, its use of the undefined terms "indecent" and "patently offensive" will provoke uncertainty among speakers about how the two standards relate to each other and just what they mean. The vagueness of such a content-based regulation, see, e. g., Gentile v. State Bar of Nev., 501 U. S. 1030, coupled with its increased deterrent effect as a criminal statute, see, e. g., Dombrowski v. Pfister, 380 U. S. 479, raise special First Amendment concerns because of its obvious chilling effect on free speech. Contrary to the Government's argument, the CDA is not saved from vagueness by the fact that its "patently offensive" stand-846ard repeats the second part of the three-prong obscenity test set forth in Miller v. California, 413 U. S. 15,24. The second Miller prong reduces the inherent vagueness of its own "patently offensive" term by requiring that the proscribed material be "specifically defined by the applicable state law." In addition, the Miller definition applies only to "sexual conduct," whereas the CDA prohibition extends also to "excretory activities" and "organs" of both a sexual and excretory nature. Each of Miller's other two prongs also critically limits the uncertain sweep of the obscenity definition. Just because a definition including three limitations is not vague, it does not follow that one of those limitations, standing alone, is not vague. The CDA's vagueness undermines the likelihood that it has been carefully tailored to the congressional goal of protecting minors from potentially harmful materials. Pp.870-874.(e) The CDA lacks the precision that the First Amendment requires when a statute regulates the content of speech. Although the Government has an interest in protecting children from potentially harmful materials, see, e. g., Ginsberg, 390 U. S., at 639, the CDA pursues that interest by suppressing a large amount of speech that adults have a constitutional right to send and receive, see, e. g., Sable, 492 U. S., at 126. Its breadth is wholly unprecedented. The CDA's burden on adult speech is unacceptable if less restrictive alternatives would be at least as effective in achieving the Act's legitimate purposes. See, e. g., id., at 126. The Government has not proved otherwise. On the other hand, the District Court found that currently available user-based software suggests that a reasonably effective method by which parents can prevent their children from accessing material which the parents believe is inappropriate will soon be widely available. Moreover, the arguments in this Court referred to possible alternatives such as requiring that indecent material be "tagged" to facilitate parental control, making exceptions for messages with artistic or educational value, providing some tolerance for parental choice, and regulating some portions of the Internet differently from others. Particularly in the light of the absence of any detailed congressional findings, or even hearings addressing the CDA's special problems, the Court is persuaded that the CDA is not narrowly tailored. Pp.874-879.(f) The Government's three additional arguments for sustaining the CDA's affirmative prohibitions are rejected. First, the contention that the Act is constitutional because it leaves open ample "alternative channels" of communication is unpersuasive because the CDA regulates speech on the basis of its content, so that a "time, place, and manner" analysis is inapplicable. See, e. g., Consolidated Edison Co. of N. Y. v.847Public Servo Comm'n of N. Y., 447 U. S. 530, 536. Second, the assertion that the CDA's "knowledge" and "specific person" requirements significantly restrict its permissible application to communications to persons the sender knows to be under 18 is untenable, given that most Internet forums are open to all comers and that even the strongest reading of the "specific person" requirement would confer broad powers of censorship, in the form of a "heckler's veto," upon any opponent of indecent speech. Finally, there is no textual support for the submission that material having scientific, educational, or other redeeming social value will necessarily fall outside the CDA's prohibitions. Pp. 879-881.(g) The § 223(e)(5) defenses do not constitute the sort of "narrow tailoring" that would save the CDA. The Government's argument that transmitters may take protective "good faith actio[n]" by "tagging" their indecent communications in a way that would indicate their contents, thus permitting recipients to block their reception with appropriate software, is illusory, given the requirement that such action be "effective": The proposed screening software does not currently exist, but, even if it did, there would be no way of knowing whether a potential recipient would actually block the encoded material. The Government also failed to prove that § 223(b)(5)'s verification defense would significantly reduce the CDA's heavy burden on adult speech. Although such verification is actually being used by some commercial providers of sexually explicit material, the District Court's findings indicate that it is not economically feasible for most noncommercial speakers. Pp.881-882.(h) The Government's argument that this Court should preserve the CDA's constitutionality by honoring its severability clause, § 608, and by construing nonseverable terms narrowly, is acceptable in only one respect. Because obscene speech may be banned totally, see Miller, 413 U. S., at 18, and § 223(a)'s restriction of "obscene" material enjoys a textual manifestation separate from that for "indecent" material, the Court can sever the term "or indecent" from the statute, leaving the rest of § 223(a) standing. Pp. 882-885.(i) The Government's argument that its "significant" interest in fostering the Internet's growth provides an independent basis for upholding the CDA's constitutionality is singularly unpersuasive. The dramatic expansion of this new forum contradicts the factual basis underlying this contention: that the unregulated availability of "indecent" and "patently offensive" material is driving people away from the Internet. P. 885.929 F. Supp. 824, affirmed.848STEVENS, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which SCALIA, KENNEDY, SOUTER, THOMAS, GINSBURG, and BREYER, JJ., joined. O'CONNOR, J., filed an opinion concurring in the judgment in part and dissenting in part, in which REHNQUIST, C. J., joined, post, p. 886.Deputy Solicitor General Waxman argued the cause for appellants. On the briefs were Acting Solicitor General Dellinger, Assistant Attorney General Hunger, Deputy Solicitor General Kneedler, Irving L. Gornstein, BarbaraBruce J. Ennis, Jr., argued the cause for appellees. With him on the brief for appellees American Library Association et al. were Ann M. Kappler, Paul M. Smith, Donald B. Verrilli, Jr., John B. Morris, Jr., Jill Lesser, Richard M. Schmidt, Jr., Bruce Rich, James Wheaton, Jerry Berman, Elliot M. Mincberg, Lawrence S. Ottinger, Andrew J. Schwartzman, Ronald L. Plesser, James J. Halpert, Michael Traynor, Robert P. Taylor, Rene Milam, Marc Jacobson, Bruce W Sanford, and Henry S. Hoberman. Christopher A. Hansen, Steven R. Shapiro, Marjorie Heins, Catherine Weiss, Stefan Presser, David L. Sobel, Marc Rotenberg, and Roger Evans filed a brief for appellees American Civil Liberties Union Foundation et al. **Briefs of amici curiae urging reversal were filed for Member of Congress Dan Coats et al. by Bruce A. Taylor and Cathleen A. Cleaver; for Enough is Enough et al. by Ronald D. Maines; for the Family Life Project of the American Center for Law and Justice by Jay Alan Sekulow, James M. Henderson, Sr., Colby M. May, Keith A. Fournier, John G. Stepanovich, and Thomas P. Monaghan; for Morality in Media, Inc., by Paul J. McGeady and Robert W Peters; and for James J. Clancy by Mr. Clancy, pro se, and Carol A. Clancy.Briefs of amici curiae urging affirmance were filed for the American Association of University Professors et al. by James D. Crawford, Carl A. Solano, Theresa E. Loscalzo, Jennifer DuFault James, and Joseph T. Lukens; for Apollomedia Corporation et al. by William Bennett Turner; for the Association of National Advertisers, Inc., by P. Cameron DeVore, John J. Walsh, Steven G. Brody, Mary Elizabeth Taylor, Gilbert H. Weil, and Sol Schildhause; for the Chamber of Commerce of the United States by Clifford M. Sloan, Bert W Rein, Robert J. Butler, Stephen A. Bokat, and849JUSTICE STEVENS delivered the opinion of the Court.At issue is the constitutionality of two statutory provisions enacted to protect minors from "indecent" and "patently offensive" communications on the Internet. Notwithstanding the legitimacy and importance of the congressional goal of protecting children from harmful materials, we agree with the three-judge District Court that the statute abridges "the freedom of speech" protected by the First Amendment.1IThe District Court made extensive findings of fact, most of which were based on a detailed stipulation prepared by the parties. See 929 F. Supp. 824, 830-849 (ED Pa. 1996).2 The findings describe the character and the dimensions of the Internet, the availability of sexually explicit material in that medium, and the problems confronting age verification for recipients of Internet communications. Because those findings provide the underpinnings for the legal issues, we begin with a summary of the undisputed facts.The InternetThe Internet is an international network of interconnected computers. It is the outgrowth of what began in 1969 as aRobin S. Conrad; for Feminists for Free Expression by Barbara M cDowell; for the National Association of Broadcasters et al. by Floyd Abrams, Jack N. Goodman, and Susanna M. Lowy; for Playboy Enterprises, Inc., by Robert Corn-Revere and Burton Joseph; for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press et al. by Jane E. Kirtley and S. Mark Goodman; for Site Specific, Inc., et al. by Jamie B. W Stecher; and for Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts et al. by Daniel H. Weiner.Raphael Winick filed a brief of amicus curiae for the Speech Communication Association.1 "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech."2 The Court made 410 findings, including 356 paragraphs of the parties' stipulation and 54 findings based on evidence received in open court. See 929 F. Supp., at 830, n. 9, 842, n. 15.850military program called "ARPANET," 3 which was designed to enable computers operated by the military, defense contractors, and universities conducting defense-related research to communicate with one another by redundant channels even if some portions of the network were damaged in a war. While the ARPANET no longer exists, it provided an example for the development of a number of civilian networks that, eventually linking with each other, now enable tens of millions of people to communicate with one another and to access vast amounts of information from around the world. The Internet is "a unique and wholly new medium of worldwide human communication."4The Internet has experienced "extraordinary growth." 5 The number of "host" computers-those that store information and relay communications-increased from about 300 in 1981 to approximately 9,400,000 by the time of the trial in 1996. Roughly 60% of these hosts are located in the United States. About 40 million people used the Internet at the time of trial, a number that is expected to mushroom to 200 million by 1999.Individuals can obtain access to the Internet from many different sources, generally hosts themselves or entities with a host affiliation. Most colleges and universities provide access for their students and faculty; many corporations provide their employees with access through an office network; many communities and local libraries provide free access; and an increasing number of storefront "computer coffee shops" provide access for a small hourly fee. Several major national "online services" such as America Online, CompuServe, the Microsoft Network, and Prodigy offer access to their own extensive proprietary networks as well as a link to the much larger resources of the Internet. These com-3 An acronym for the network developed by the Advanced Research Project Agency.4Id., at 844 (finding 81). 5Id., at 831 (finding 3).851mercial online services had almost 12 million individual subscribers at the time of trial.Anyone with access to the Internet may take advantage of a wide variety of communication and information retrieval methods. These methods are constantly evolving and difficult to categorize precisely. But, as presently constituted, those most relevant to this case are electronic mail (e-mail), automatic mailing list services ("mail exploders," sometimes referred to as "listservs"), "newsgroups," "chat rooms," and the "World Wide Web." All of these methods can be used to transmit text; most can transmit sound, pictures, and moving video images. Taken together, these tools constitute a unique medium-known to its users as "cyberspace" -located in no particular geographical location but available to anyone, anywhere in the world, with access to the Internet.E-mail enables an individual to send an electronic message-generally akin to a note or letter-to another individual or to a group of addressees. The message is generally stored electronically, sometimes waiting for the recipient to check her "mailbox" and sometimes making its receipt known through some type of prompt. A mail exploder is a sort of e-mail group. Subscribers can send messages to a common e-mail address, which then forwards the message to the group's other subscribers. Newsgroups also serve groups of regular participants, but these po stings may be read by others as well. There are thousands of such groups, each serving to foster an exchange of information or opinion on a particular topic running the gamut from, say, the music of Wagner to Balkan politics to AIDS prevention to the Chicago Bulls. About 100,000 new messages are posted every day. In most newsgroups, po stings are automatically purged at regular intervals. In addition to posting a message that can be read later, two or more individuals wishing to communicate more immediately can enter a chat room to engage in real-time dialogue-in other words, by typing messages to one another that appear almost immediately on852the others' computer screens. The District Court found that at any given time "tens of thousands of users are engaging in conversations on a huge range of subjects." 6 It is "no exaggeration to conclude that the content on the Internet is as diverse as human thought."7The best known category of communication over the Internet is the World Wide Web, which allows users to search for and retrieve information stored in remote computers, as well as, in some cases, to communicate back to designated sites. In concrete terms, the Web consists of a vast number of documents stored in different computers all over the world. Some of these documents are simply files containing information. However, more elaborate documents, commonly known as Web "pages," are also prevalent. Each has its own address-"rather like a telephone number."s Web pages frequently contain information and sometimes allow the viewer to communicate with the page's (or "site's") author. They generally also contain "links" to other documents created by that site's author or to other (generally) related sites. Typically, the links are either blue or underlined text-sometimes images.Navigating the Web is relatively straightforward. A user may either type the address of a known page or enter one or more keywords into a commercial "search engine" in an effort to locate sites on a subject of interest. A particular Web page may contain the information sought by the "surfer," or, through its links, it may be an avenue to other documents located anywhere on the Internet. Users generally explore a given Web page, or move to another, by clicking a computer "mouse" on one of the page's icons or links. Access to most Web pages is freely available, but some allow access only to those who have purchased the right from a6Id., at 835 (finding 27). 7Id., at 842 (finding 74). 8Id., at 836 (finding 36).853commercial provider. The Web is thus comparable, from the readers' viewpoint, to both a vast library including millions of readily available and indexed publications and a sprawling mall offering goods and services.From the publishers' point of view, it constitutes a vast platform from which to address and hear from a worldwide audience of millions of readers, viewers, researchers, and buyers. Any person or organization with a computer connected to the Internet can "publish" information. Publishers include government agencies, educational institutions, commercial entities, advocacy groups, and individuals.9 Publishers may either make their material available to the entire pool of Internet users, or confine access to a selected group, such as those willing to pay for the privilege. "No single organization controls any membership in the Web, nor is there any single centralized point from which individual Web sites or services can be blocked from the Web." 10Sexually Explicit MaterialSexually explicit material on the Internet includes text, pictures, and chat and "extends from the modestly titillating to the hardest-core." 11 These files are created, named, and posted in the same manner as material that is not sexually explicit, and may be accessed either deliberately or unintentionally during the course of an imprecise search. "Once a provider posts its content on the Internet, it cannot prevent that content from entering any community." 12 Thus, for example,9 "Web publishing is simple enough that thousands of individual users and small community organizations are using the Web to publish their own personal 'home pages,' the equivalent of individualized newsletters about that person or organization, which are available to everyone on the Web." Id., at 837 (finding 42).l°Id., at 838 (finding 46). 11 Id., at 844 (finding 82). 12 Ibid. (finding 86).854"when the UCR/California Museum of Photography posts to its Web site nudes by Edward Weston and Robert Mapplethorpe to announce that its new exhibit will travel to Baltimore and New York City, those images are available not only in Los Angeles, Baltimore, and New York City, but also in Cincinnati, Mobile, or Beijing-wherever Internet users live. Similarly, the safer sex instructions that Critical Path posts to its Web site, written in street language so that the teenage receiver can understand them, are available not just in Philadelphia, but also in Provo and Prague." 13Some of the communications over the Internet that originate in foreign countries are also sexually explicit.14Though such material is widely available, users seldom encounter such content accidentally. "A document's title or a description of the document will usually appear before the document itself ... and in many cases the user will receive detailed information about a site's content before he or she need take the step to access the document. Almost all sexually explicit images are preceded by warnings as to the content." 15 For that reason, the "odds are slim" that a user would enter a sexually explicit site by accident.16 Unlike communications received by radio or television, "the receipt of information on the Internet requires a series of affirmative steps more deliberate and directed than merely turning a dial. A child requires some sophistication and some ability to read to retrieve material and thereby to use the Internet unattended." 17Systems have been developed to help parents control the material that may be available on a home computer with In-13 Ibid. (finding 85).14Id., at 848 (finding 117). 15Id., at 844-845 (finding 88). 16 Ibid.17Id., at 845 (finding 89).855ternet access. A system may either limit a computer's access to an approved list of sources that have been identified as containing no adult material, it may block designated inappropriate sites, or it may attempt to block messages containing identifiable objectionable features. "Although parental control software currently can screen for certain suggestive words or for known sexually explicit sites, it cannot now screen for sexually explicit images."18 Nevertheless, the evidence indicates that "a reasonably effective method by which parents can prevent their children from accessing sexually explicit and other material which parents may believe is inappropriate for their children will soon be widely available." 19Age VerificationThe problem of age verification differs for different uses of the Internet. The District Court categorically determined that there "is no effective way to determine the identity or the age of a user who is accessing material through e-mail, mail exploders, newsgroups or chat rooms." 20 The Government offered no evidence that there was a reliable way to screen recipients and participants in such forums for18Id., at 842 (finding 72). 19 Ibid. (finding 73).2°Id., at 845 (finding 90): "An e-mail address provides no authoritative information about the addressee, who may use an e-mail .alias. or an anonymous remailer. There is also no universal or reliable listing of e-mail addresses and corresponding names or telephone numbers, and any such listing would be or rapidly become incomplete. For these reasons, there is no reliable way in many instances for a sender to know if the e-mail recipient is an adult or a minor. The difficulty of e-mail age verification is compounded for mail exploders such as listservs, which automatically send information to all e-mail addresses on a sender's list. Government expert Dr. Olsen agreed that no current technology could give a speaker assurance that only adults were listed in a particular mail exploder's mailing list."856age. Moreover, even if it were technologically feasible to block minors' access to newsgroups and chat rooms containing discussions of art, politics, or other subjects that potentially elicit "indecent" or "patently offensive" contributions, it would not be possible to block their access to that material and "still allow them access to the remaining content, even if the overwhelming majority of that content was not indecent." 21Technology exists by which an operator of a Web site may condition access on the verification of requested information such as a credit card number or an adult password. Credit card verification is only feasible, however, either in connection with a commercial transaction in which the card is used, or by payment to a verification agency. U sing credit card possession as a surrogate for proof of age would impose costs on noncommercial Web sites that would require many of them to shut down. For that reason, at the time of the trial, credit card verification was "effectively unavailable to a substantial number of Internet content providers." 929 F. Supp., at 846 (finding 102). Moreover, the imposition of such a requirement "would completely bar adults who do not have a credit card and lack the resources to obtain one from accessing any blocked material." 22Commercial pornographic sites that charge their users for access have assigned them passwords as a method of age verification. The record does not contain any evidence concerning the reliability of these technologies. Even if passwords are effective for commercial purveyors of indecent material, the District Court found that an adult password requirement would impose significant burdens on noncommercial sites, both because they would discourage users from accessing their sites and because the cost of creating and21 Ibid. (finding 93).22Id., at 846 (finding 102).857maintaining such screening systems would be "beyond their reach." 23In sum, the District Court found:"Even if credit card verification or adult password verification were implemented, the Government presented no testimony as to how such systems could ensure that the user of the password or credit card is in fact over 18. The burdens imposed by credit card verification and adult password verification systems make them effectively unavailable to a substantial number of Internet content providers." Ibid. (finding 107).IIThe Telecommunications Act of 1996, Pub. L. 104-104, 110 Stat. 56, was an unusually important legislative enactment. As stated on the first of its 103 pages, its primary purpose was to reduce regulation and encourage "the rapid deployment of new telecommunications technologies." The major components of the statute have nothing to do with the Internet; they were designed to promote competition in the local telephone service market, the multichannel video mar-23Id., at 847 (findings 104-106):"At least some, if not almost all, non-commercial organizations, such as the ACLU, Stop Prisoner Rape or Critical Path AIDS Project, regard charging listeners to access their speech as contrary to their goals of making their materials available to a wide audience free of charge."There is evidence suggesting that adult users, particularly casual Web browsers, would be discouraged from retrieving information that required use of a credit card or password. Andrew Anker testified that HotWired has received many complaints from its members about HotWired's registration system, which requires only that a member supply a name, e-mail address and self-created password. There is concern by commercial content providers that age verification requirements would decrease advertising and revenue because advertisers depend on a demonstration that the sites are widely available and frequently visited."858ket, and the market for over-the-air broadcasting. The Act includes seven Titles, six of which are the product of extensive committee hearings and the subject of discussion in Reports prepared by Committees of the Senate and the House of Representatives. By contrast, Title V-known as the "Communications Decency Act of 1996" (CDA)-contains provisions that were either added in executive committee after the hearings were concluded or as amendments offered during floor debate on the legislation. An amendment offered in the Senate was the source of the two statutory provisions challenged in this case.24 They are informally de-24 See Exon Amendment No. 1268, 141 Congo Rec. 15536 (1995). See also id., at 15505. This amendment, as revised, became § 502 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996, 110 Stat. 133, 47 U. S. C. §§ 223(a)-(e) (1994 ed., Supp. II). Some Members of the House of Representatives opposed the Exon Amendment because they thought it "possible for our parents now to child-proof the family computer with these products available in the private sector." They also thought the Senate's approach would "involve the Federal Government spending vast sums of money trying to define elusive terms that are going to lead to a flood of legal challenges while our kids are unprotected." These Members offered an amendment intended as a substitute for the Exon Amendment, but instead enacted as an additional section of the Act entitled "Online Family Empowerment." See 110 Stat. 137, 47 U. S. C. §230 (1994 ed., Supp. II); 141 Congo Rec. 27881 (1995). No hearings were held on the provisions that became law. See S. Rep. No. 104-23, p. 9 (1995). After the Senate adopted the Exon Amendment, however, its Judiciary Committee did conduct a one-day hearing on "Cyberporn and Children." In his opening statement at that hearing, Senator Leahy observed:"It really struck me in your opening statement when you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, that it is the first ever hearing, and you are absolutely right. And yet we had a major debate on the floor, passed legislation overwhelmingly on a subject involving the Internet, legislation that could dramatically change-some would say even wreak havoc-on the Internet. The Senate went in willy-nilly, passed legislation, and never once had a hearing, never once had a discussion other than an hour or so on the floor." Cyberporn and Children: The Scope of the Problem, The State of the Technology, and the Need for Congressional Action, Hearing on S. 892 before the Senate Committee on the Judiciary, 104th Cong., 1st Sess., 7-8 (1995).859scribed as the "indecent transmission" provision and the "patently offensive display" provision.25The first, 47 U. s. C. § 223(a) (1994 ed., Supp. II), prohibits the knowing transmission of obscene or indecent messages to any recipient under 18 years of age. It provides in pertinent part:"(a) Whoever-"(1) in interstate or foreign communications-"(B) by means of a telecommunications device knowingly-"(i) makes, creates, or solicits, and "(ii) initiates the transmission of,"any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image, or other communication which is obscene or indecent, knowing that the recipient of the communication is under 18 years of age, regardless of whether the maker of such communication placed the call or initiated the communication;"(2) knowingly permits any telecommunications facility under his control to be used for any activity prohibited by paragraph (1) with the intent that it be used for such activity,"shall be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."The second provision, § 223(d), prohibits the knowing sending or displaying of patently offensive messages in a manner that is available to a person under 18 years of age. It provides:25 Although the Government and the dissent break § 223(d)(1) into two separate "patently offensive" and "display" provisions, we follow the convention of both parties below, as well as the District Court's order and opinion, in describing § 223(d)(1) as one provision.860"(d) Whoever-"(1) in interstate or foreign communications knowingly-"(A) uses an interactive computer service to send to a specific person or persons under 18 years of age, or"(B) uses any interactive computer service to display in a manner available to a person under 18 years of age,"any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image, or other communication that, in context, depicts or describes, in terms patently offensive as measured by contemporary community standards, sexual or excretory activities or organs, regardless of whether the user of such service placed the call or initiated the communication; or"(2) knowingly permits any telecommunications facility under such person's control to be used for an activity prohibited by paragraph (1) with the intent that it be used for such activity,"shall be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."The breadth of these prohibitions is qualified by two affirmative defenses. See § 223(e)(5).26 One covers those who take "good faith, reasonable, effective, and appropriate actions" to restrict access by minors to the prohibited communications. § 223(e)(5)(A). The other covers those who26 In full, § 223(e)(5) provides:"(5) It is a defense to a prosecution under subsection (a)(l)(B) or (d) of this section, or under subsection (a)(2) of this section with respect to the use of a facility for an activity under subsection (a)(l)(B) of this section that a person-"(A) has taken, in good faith, reasonable, effective, and appropriate actions under the circumstances to restrict or prevent access by minors to a communication specified in such subsections, which may involve any appropriate measures to restrict minors from such communications, including any method which is feasible under available technology; or"(B) has restricted access to such communication by requiring use of a verified credit card, debit account, adult access code, or adult personal identification number."861restrict access to covered material by requiring certain designated forms of age proof, such as a verified credit card or an adult identification number or code. § 223(e)(5)(B).IIIOn February 8, 1996, immediately after the President signed the statute, 20 plaintiffs 27 filed suit against the Attorney General of the United States and the Department of Justice challenging the constitutionality of §§ 223(a)(1) and 223(d). A week later, based on his conclusion that the term "indecent" was too vague to provide the basis for a criminal prosecution, District Judge Buckwalter entered a temporary restraining order against enforcement of § 223(a)(1)(B)(ii) insofar as it applies to indecent communications. A second suit was then filed by 27 additional plaintiffs,2S the two cases27 American Civil Liberties Union; Human Rights Watch; Electronic Privacy Information Center; Electronic Frontier Foundation; Journalism Education Association; Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility; N ational Writers Union; Clarinet Communications Corp.; Institute for Global Communications; Stop Prisoner Rape; AIDS Education Global Information System; Bibliobytes; Queer Resources Directory; Critical Path AIDS Project, Inc.; Wildcat Press, Inc.; Declan McCullagh dba Justice on Campus; Brock Meeks dba Cyberwire Dispatch; John Troyer dba The Safer Sex Page; Jonathan Wallace dba The Ethical Spectacle; and Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Inc.28 American Library Association; America Online, Inc.; American Booksellers Association, Inc.; American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression; American Society of Newspaper Editors; Apple Computer, Inc.; Association of American Publishers, Inc.; Association of Publishers, Editors and Writers; Citizens Internet Empowerment Coalition; Commercial Internet Exchange Association; CompuServe Incorporated; Families Against Internet Censorship; Freedom to Read Foundation, Inc.; Health Sciences Libraries Consortium; Hotwired Ventures LLC; Interactive Digital Software Association; Interactive Services Association; Magazine Publishers of America; Microsoft Corporation; The Microsoft Network, L. L. C.; National Press Photographers Association; Netcom On-Line Communication Services, Inc.; Newspaper Association of America; Opnet, Inc.; Prodigy Services Company; Society of Professional Journalists; and Wired Ventures, Ltd.862were consolidated, and a three-judge District Court was convened pursuant to § 561 of the CDA.29 After an evidentiary hearing, that court entered a preliminary injunction against enforcement of both of the challenged provisions. Each of the three judges wrote a separate opinion, but their judgment was unanimous.Chief Judge Sloviter doubted the strength of the Government's interest in regulating "the vast range of online material covered or potentially covered by the CDA," but acknowledged that the interest was "compelling" with respect to some of that material. 929 F. Supp., at 853. She concluded, nonetheless, that the statute "sweeps more broadly than necessary and thereby chills the expression of adults" and that the terms "patently offensive" and "indecent" were "inherently vague." Id., at 854. She also determined that the affirmative defenses were not "technologically or economically feasible for most providers," specifically considering and rejecting an argument that providers could avoid liability by "tagging" their material in a manner that would allow potential readers to screen out unwanted transmissions. Id., at 856. Chief Judge Sloviter also rejected the Government's suggestion that the scope of the statute could be narrowed by construing it to apply only to commercial pornographers. Id., at 854-855.Judge Buckwalter concluded that the word "indecent" in § 223(a)(1)(B) and the terms "patently offensive" and "in context" in § 223(d)(1) were so vague that criminal enforcement of either section would violate the "fundamental constitutional principle" of "simple fairness," id., at 861, and the specific protections of the First and Fifth Amendments, id., at 858. He found no statutory basis for the Government's argument that the challenged provisions would be applied only to "pornographic" materials, noting that, unlike obscenity, "indecency has not been defined to exclude works of serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value." Id., at 863.29110 Stat. 142-143, note following 47 U. S. C. §223 (1994 ed., Supp. II).863Moreover, the Government's claim that the work must be considered patently offensive "in context" was itself vague because the relevant context might "refer to, among other things, the nature of the communication as a whole, the time of day it was conveyed, the medium used, the identity of the speaker, or whether or not it is accompanied by appropriate warnings." Id., at 864. He believed that the unique nature of the Internet aggravated the vagueness of the statute. Id., at 865, n. 9.Judge Dalzell's review of "the special attributes of Internet communication" disclosed by the evidence convinced him that the First Amendment denies Congress the power to regulate the content of protected speech on the Internet. Id., at 867. His opinion explained at length why he believed the CDA would abridge significant protected speech, particularly by noncommercial speakers, while "[p]erversely, commercial pornographers would remain relatively unaffected." Id., at 879. He construed our cases as requiring a "medium-specific" approach to the analysis of the regulation of mass communication, id., at 873, and concluded that the Internet-as "the most participatory form of mass speech yet developed," id., at 883-is entitled to "the highest protection from governmental intrusion," ibid.3030 See also 929 F. Supp., at 877: "Four related characteristics of Internet communication have a transcendent importance to our shared holding that the CDA is unconstitutional on its face. We explain these characteristics in our Findings of fact above, and I only rehearse them briefly here. First, the Internet presents very low barriers to entry. Second, these barriers to entry are identical for both speakers and listeners. Third, as a result of these low barriers, astoundingly diverse content is available on the Internet. Fourth, the Internet provides significant access to all who wish to speak in the medium, and even creates a relative parity among speakers." According to Judge Dalzell, these characteristics and the rest of the District Court's findings "lead to the conclusion that Congress may not regulate indecency on the Internet at all." Ibid. Because appellees do not press this argument before this Court, we do not consider it. Appellees also do not dispute that the Government generally has a compelling interest in protecting minors from "indecent" and "patently offensive" speech.864The judgment of the District Court enjoins the Government from enforcing the prohibitions in § 223(a)(1)(B) insofar as they relate to "indecent" communications, but expressly preserves the Government's right to investigate and prosecute the obscenity or child pornography activities prohibited therein. The injunction against enforcement of §§ 223(d)(1) and (2) is unqualified because those provisions contain no separate reference to obscenity or child pornography.The Government appealed under the CDA's special review provisions, § 561, 110 Stat. 142-143, and we noted probable jurisdiction, see 519 U. S. 1025 (1996). In its appeal, the Government argues that the District Court erred in holding that the CDA violated both the First Amendment because it is overbroad and the Fifth Amendment because it is vague. While we discuss the vagueness of the CDA because of its relevance to the First Amendment overbreadth inquiry, we conclude that the judgment should be affirmed without reaching the Fifth Amendment issue. We begin our analysis by reviewing the principal authorities on which the Government relies. Then, after describing the overbreadth of the CDA, we consider the Government's specific contentions, including its submission that we save portions of the statute either by severance or by fashioning judicial limitations on the scope of its coverage.IVIn arguing for reversal, the Government contends that the CDA is plainly constitutional under three of our prior decisions: (1) Ginsberg v. New York, 390 U. S. 629 (1968); (2) FCC v. Pacifica Foundation, 438 U. S. 726 (1978); and (3) Renton v. Playtime Theatres, Inc., 475 U. S. 41 (1986). A close look at these cases, however, raises-rather than relievesdoubts concerning the constitutionality of the CDA.In Ginsberg, we upheld the constitutionality of a New York statute that prohibited selling to minors under 17 years of age material that was considered obscene as to them even if not obscene as to adults. We rejected the defendant's broad865submission that "the scope of the constitutional freedom of expression secured to a citizen to read or see material concerned with sex cannot be made to depend on whether the citizen is an adult or a minor." 390 U. S., at 636. In rejecting that contention, we relied not only on the State's independent interest in the well-being of its youth, but also on our consistent recognition of the principle that "the parents' claim to authority in their own household to direct the rearing of their children is basic in the structure of our society." 31In four important respects, the statute upheld in Ginsberg was narrower than the CDA. First, we noted in Ginsberg that "the prohibition against sales to minors does not bar parents who so desire from purchasing the magazines for their children." Id., at 639. Under the CDA, by contrast, neither the parents' consent-nor even their participationin the communication would avoid the application of the statute.32 Second, the New York statute applied only to commercial transactions, id., at 647, whereas the CDA contains no such limitation. Third, the New York statute cabined its definition of material that is harmful to minors with the requirement that it be "utterly without redeeming social importance for minors." Id., at 646. The CDA fails to provide us with any definition of the term "indecent" as used in § 223(a)(1) and, importantly, omits any requirement that the "patently offensive" material covered by § 223(d) lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. Fourth, the New York statute defined a minor as a person under the age31390 U. S., at 639. We quoted from Prince v. Massachusetts, 321 U. S. 158, 166 (1944): "It is cardinal with us that the custody, care and nurture of the child reside first in the parents, whose primary function and freedom include preparation for obligations the state can neither supply nor hinder."32 Given the likelihood that many e-mail transmissions from an adult to a minor are conversations between family members, it is therefore incorrect for the partial dissent to suggest that the provisions of the CDA, even in this narrow area, "are no different from the law we sustained in Ginsberg." Post, at 892.866of 17, whereas the CDA, in applying to all those under 18 years, includes an additional year of those nearest majority.In Pacifica, we upheld a declaratory order of the Federal Communications Commission, holding that the broadcast of a recording of a 12-minute monologue entitled "Filthy Words" that had previously been delivered to a live audience "could have been the subject of administrative sanctions." 438 U. S., at 730 (internal quotation marks omitted). The Commission had found that the repetitive use of certain words referring to excretory or sexual activities or organs "in an afternoon broadcast when children are in the audience was patently offensive" and concluded that the monologue was indecent "as broadcast." Id., at 735. The respondent did not quarrel with the finding that the afternoon broadcast was patently offensive, but contended that it was not "indecent" within the meaning of the relevant statutes because it contained no prurient appeal. After rejecting respondent's statutory arguments, we confronted its two constitutional arguments: (1) that the Commission's construction of its authority to ban indecent speech was so broad that its order had to be set aside even if the broadcast at issue was unprotected; and (2) that since the recording was not obscene, the First Amendment forbade any abridgment of the right to broadcast it on the radio.In the portion of the lead opinion not joined by Justices Powell and Blackmun, the plurality stated that the First Amendment does not prohibit all governmental regulation that depends on the content of speech. Id., at 742-743. Accordingly, the availability of constitutional protection for a vulgar and offensive monologue that was not obscene depended on the context of the broadcast. Id., at 744-748. Relying on the premise that "of all forms of communication" broadcasting had received the most limited First Amendment protection, id., at 748-749, the Court concluded that the ease with which children may obtain access to broadcasts,867"coupled with the concerns recognized in Ginsberg," justified special treatment of indecent broadcasting. Id., at 749-750.As with the New York statute at issue in Ginsberg, there are significant differences between the order upheld in Pacifica and the CDA. First, the order in Pacifica, issued by an agency that had been regulating radio stations for decades, targeted a specific broadcast that represented a rather dramatic departure from traditional program content in order to designate when-rather than whether-it would be permissible to air such a program in that particular medium. The CDA's broad categorical prohibitions are not limited to particular times and are not dependent on any evaluation by an agency familiar with the unique characteristics of the Internet. Second, unlike the CDA, the Commission's declaratory order was not punitive; we expressly refused to decide whether the indecent broadcast "would justify a criminal prosecution." 438 U. S., at 750. Finally, the Commission's order applied to a medium which as a matter of history had "received the most limited First Amendment protection," id., at 748, in large part because warnings could not adequately protect the listener from unexpected program content. The Internet, however, has no comparable history. Moreover, the District Court found that the risk of encountering indecent material by accident is remote because a series of affirmative steps is required to access specific material.In Renton, we upheld a zoning ordinance that kept adult movie theaters out of residential neighborhoods. The ordinance was aimed, not at the content of the films shown in the theaters, but rather at the "secondary effects" -such as crime and deteriorating property values-that these theaters fostered: "'It is thee] secondary effect which these zoning ordinances attempt to avoid, not the dissemination of "offensive" speech.''' 475 U. S., at 49 (quoting Young v. American Mini Theatres, Inc., 427 U. S. 50, 71, n. 34 (1976)). According to the Government, the CDA is constitutional be-868cause it constitutes a sort of "cyberzoning" on the Internet. But the CDA applies broadly to the entire universe of cyberspace. And the purpose of the CDA is to protect children from the primary effects of "indecent" and "patently offensive" speech, rather than any "secondary" effect of such speech. Thus, the CDA is a content-based blanket restriction on speech, and, as such, cannot be "properly analyzed as a form of time, place, and manner regulation." 475 U. S., at 46. See also Boos v. Barry, 485 U. S. 312, 321 (1988) ("Regulations that focus on the direct impact of speech on its audience" are not properly analyzed under Renton); Forsyth County v. Nationalist Movement, 505 U. S. 123, 134 (1992) ("Listeners' reaction to speech is not a content-neutral basis for regulation").These precedents, then, surely do not require us to uphold the CDA and are fully consistent with the application of the most stringent review of its provisions.vIn Southeastern Promotions, Ltd. v. Conrad, 420 U. S. 546, 557 (1975), we observed that "[e]ach medium of expression ... may present its own problems." Thus, some of our cases have recognized special justifications for regulation of the broadcast media that are not applicable to other speakers, see Red Lion Broadcasting Co. v. FCC, 395 U. S. 367 (1969); FCC v. Pacifica Foundation, 438 U. S. 726 (1978). In these cases, the Court relied on the history of extensive Government regulation of the broadcast medium, see, e. g., Red Lion, 395 U. S., at 399-400; the scarcity of available frequencies at its inception, see, e. g., Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. v. FCC, 512 U. S. 622, 637-638 (1994); and its "invasive" nature, see Sable Communications of Cal., Inc. v. FCC, 492 U. S. 115, 128 (1989).Those factors are not present in cyberspace. Neither before nor after the enactment of the CDA have the vast democratic forums of the Internet been subject to the type869of government supervision and regulation that has attended the broadcast industry.33 Moreover, the Internet is not as "invasive" as radio or television. The District Court specifically found that "[c]ommunications over the Internet do not 'invade' an individual's home or appear on one's computer screen unbidden. Users seldom encounter content 'by accident.' " 929 F. Supp., at 844 (finding 88). It also found that "[a]lmost all sexually explicit images are preceded by warnings as to the content," and cited testimony that" 'odds are slim' that a user would come across a sexually explicit sight by accident." Ibid.We distinguished Pacifica in Sable, 492 U. S., at 128, on just this basis. In Sable, a company engaged in the business of offering sexually oriented prerecorded telephone messages (popularly known as "dial-a-porn") challenged the constitutionality of an amendment to the Communications Act of 1934 that imposed a blanket prohibition on indecent as well as obscene interstate commercial telephone messages. We held that the statute was constitutional insofar as it applied to obscene messages but invalid as applied to indecent messages. In attempting to justify the complete ban and criminalization of indecent commercial telephone messages, the Government relied on Pacifica, arguing that the ban was necessary to prevent children from gaining access to such messages. We agreed that "there is a compelling interest in protecting the physical and psychological well-being of minors" which extended to shielding them from indecent messages that are not obscene by adult standards, 492 U. S., at33 Cf. Pacifica Foundation v. FCC, 556 F.2d 9, 36 (CADC 1977) (LevanthaI, J., dissenting), rev'd, FCC v. Pacifica Foundation, 438 U. S. 726 (1978). When Pacifica was decided, given that radio stations were allowed to operate only pursuant to federal license, and that Congress had enacted legislation prohibiting licensees from broadcasting indecent speech, there was a risk that members of the radio audience might infer some sort of official or societal approval of whatever was heard over the radio, see 556 F. 2d, at 37, n. 18. No such risk attends messages received through the Internet, which is not supervised by any federal agency.870126, but distinguished our "emphatically narrow holding" in Pacifica because it did not involve a complete ban and because it involved a different medium of communication, id., at 127. We explained that "the dial-it medium requires the listener to take affirmative steps to receive the communication." Id., at 127-128. "Placing a telephone call," we continued, "is not the same as turning on a radio and being taken by surprise by an indecent message." Id., at 128.Finally, unlike the conditions that prevailed when Congress first authorized regulation of the broadcast spectrum, the Internet can hardly be considered a "scarce" expressive commodity. It provides relatively unlimited, low-cost capacity for communication of all kinds. The Government estimates that "[a]s many as 40 million people use the Internet today, and that figure is expected to grow to 200 million by 1999."34 This dynamic, multifaceted category of communication includes not only traditional print and news services, but also audio, video, and still images, as well as interactive, real-time dialogue. Through the use of chat rooms, any person with a phone line can become a town crier with a voice that resonates farther than it could from any soapbox. Through the use of Web pages, mail exploders, and newsgroups, the same individual can become a pamphleteer. As the District Court found, "the content on the Internet is as diverse as human thought." 929 F. Supp., at 842 (finding 74). We agree with its conclusion that our cases provide no basis for qualifying the level of First Amendment scrutiny that should be applied to this medium.VIRegardless of whether the CDA is so vague that it violates the Fifth Amendment, the many ambiguities concerning the scope of its coverage render it problematic for purposes of the First Amendment. For instance, each of the two parts34 Juris. Statement 3 (citing 929 F. Supp., at 831 (finding 3)).871of the CDA uses a different linguistic form. The first uses the word "indecent," 47 U. s. C. § 223(a) (1994 ed., Supp. II), while the second speaks of material that "in context, depicts or describes, in terms patently offensive as measured by contemporary community standards, sexual or excretory activities or organs," § 223(d). Given the absence of a definition of either term,35 this difference in language will provoke uncertainty among speakers about how the two standards relate to each other36 and just what they mean.37 Could a speaker confidently assume that a serious discussion about birth control practices, homosexuality, the First Amendment issues raised by the Appendix to our Pacifica opinion, or the consequences of prison rape would not violate the CDA? This uncertainty undermines the likelihood that the CDA has been carefully tailored to the congressional goal of protecting minors from potentially harmful materials.The vagueness of the CDA is a matter of special concern for two reasons. First, the CDA is a content-based regulation of speech. The vagueness of such a regulation raises35 "Indecent" does not benefit from any textual embellishment at all."Patently offensive" is qualified only to the extent that it involves "sexual or excretory activities or organs" taken "in context" and "measured by contemporary community standards."36 See Gozlon-Peretz v. United States, 498 U. S. 395, 404 (1991) ("[W]here Congress includes particular language in one section of a statute but omits it in another section of the same Act, it is generally presumed that Congress acts intentionally and purposely in the disparate inclusion and exclusion" (internal quotation marks omitted)).37 The statute does not indicate whether the "patently offensive" and "indecent" determinations should be made with respect to minors or the population as a whole. The Government asserts that the appropriate standard is "what is suitable material for minors." Reply Brief for Appellants 18, n. 13 (citing Ginsberg v. New York, 390 U. S. 629, 633 (1968)). But the Conferees expressly rejected amendments that would have imposed such a "harmful to minors" standard. See S. Conf. Rep. No. 104-230, p. 189 (1996) (S. Conf. Rep.), 142 Congo Rec. H1145, H1165-H1166 (Feb. 1, 1996). The Conferees also rejected amendments that would have limited the proscribed materials to those lacking redeeming value. See ibid.872special First Amendment concerns because of its obvious chilling effect on free speech. See, e. g., Gentile v. State Bar of Nev., 501 U. S. 1030, 1048-1051 (1991). Second, the CDA is a criminal statute. In addition to the opprobrium and stigma of a criminal conviction, the CDA threatens violators with penalties including up to two years in prison for each act of violation. The severity of criminal sanctions may well cause speakers to remain silent rather than communicate even arguably unlawful words, ideas, and images. See, e. g., Dombrowski v. Pfister, 380 U. S. 479, 494 (1965). As a practical matter, this increased deterrent effect, coupled with the "risk of discriminatory enforcement" of vague regulations, poses greater First Amendment concerns than those implicated by the civil regulation reviewed in Denver Area Ed. Telecommunications Consortium, Inc. v. FCC, 518 U. S. 727 (1996).The Government argues that the statute is no more vague than the obscenity standard this Court established in Miller v. California, 413 U. S. 15 (1973). But that is not so. In Miller, this Court reviewed a criminal conviction against a commercial vendor who mailed brochures containing pictures of sexually explicit activities to individuals who had not requested such materials. Id., at 18. Having struggled for some time to establish a definition of obscenity, we set forth in Miller the test for obscenity that controls to this day:"(a) whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; (b) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law; and (c) whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value." Id., at 24 (internal quotation marks and citations omitted).873Because the CDA's "patently offensive" standard (and, we assume, arguendo, its synonymous "indecent" standard) is one part of the three-prong Miller test, the Government reasons, it cannot be unconstitutionally vague.The Government's assertion is incorrect as a matter of fact. The second prong of the Miller test-the purportedly analogous standard-contains a critical requirement that is omitted from the CDA: that the proscribed material be "specifically defined by the applicable state law." This requirement reduces the vagueness inherent in the open-ended term "patently offensive" as used in the CDA. Moreover, the Miller definition is limited to "sexual conduct," whereas the CDA extends also to include (1) "excretory activities" as well as (2) "organs" of both a sexual and excretory nature.The Government's reasoning is also flawed. Just because a definition including three limitations is not vague, it does not follow that one of those limitations, standing by itself, is not vague.38 Each of Miller's additional two prongs-(l) that, taken as a whole, the material appeal to the "prurient" interest, and (2) that it "lac[k] serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value"-critically limits the uncertain sweep of the obscenity definition. The second requirement is particularly important because, unlike the "patently offensive" and "prurient interest" criteria, it is not judged by contemporary community standards. See Pope v. Illinois, 481 U. S. 497, 500 (1987). This "societal value" requirement, absent in the CDA, allows appellate courts to impose some limitations and regularity on the definition by setting, as a matter of law, a national floor for socially redeeming value. The Government's contention that courts will be able to give such legal limitations to the CDA's standards is belied by Miller's own rationale for having juries determine whether material38 Even though the word "trunk," standing alone, might refer to luggage, a swimming suit, the base of a tree, or the long nose of an animal, its meaning is clear when it is one prong of a three-part description of a species of gray animals.874is "patently offensive" according to community standards: that such questions are essentially ones of fact.39In contrast to Miller and our other previous cases, the CDA thus presents a greater threat of censoring speech that, in fact, falls outside the statute's scope. Given the vague contours of the coverage of the statute, it unquestionably silences some speakers whose messages would be entitled to constitutional protection. That danger provides further reason for insisting that the statute not be overly broad. The CDA's burden on protected speech cannot be justified if it could be avoided by a more carefully drafted statute.VIIWe are persuaded that the CDA lacks the precision that the First Amendment requires when a statute regulates the content of speech. In order to deny minors access to potentially harmful speech, the CDA effectively suppresses a large amount of speech that adults have a constitutional right to receive and to address to one another. That burden on adult speech is unacceptable if less restrictive alternatives would be at least as effective in achieving the legitimate purpose that the statute was enacted to serve.In evaluating the free speech rights of adults, we have made it perfectly clear that "[s]exual expression which is indecent but not obscene is protected by the First Amendment." Sable, 492 U. S., at 126. See also Carey v. Population Services Int'l, 431 U. S. 678, 701 (1977) ("[W]here obscenity is not involved, we have consistently held that the39413 U. S., at 30 (Determinations of "what appeals to the 'prurient interest' or is 'patently offensive' ... are essentially questions of fact, and our Nation is simply too big and too diverse for this Court to reasonably expect that such standards could be articulated for all 50 States in a single formulation, even assuming the prerequisite consensus exists"). The CDA, which implements the "contemporary community standards" language of Miller, thus conflicts with the Conferees' own assertion that the CDA was intended "to establish a uniform national standard of content regulation." S. Conf. Rep., at 191.875fact that protected speech may be offensive to some does not justify its suppression"). Indeed, Pacifica itself admonished that "the fact that society may find speech offensive is not a sufficient reason for suppressing it." 438 U. S., at 745.It is true that we have repeatedly recognized the governmental interest in protecting children from harmful materials. See Ginsberg, 390 U. S., at 639; Pacifica, 438 U. S., at 749. But that interest does not justify an unnecessarily broad suppression of speech addressed to adults. As we have explained, the Government may not "reduc[e] the adult population ... to ... only what is fit for children." Denver, 518 U. S., at 759 (internal quotation marks omitted) (quoting Sable, 492 U. S., at 128).40 "[R]egardless of the strength of the government's interest" in protecting children, "[t]he level of discourse reaching a mailbox simply cannot be limited to that which would be suitable for a sandbox." Bolger v. Youngs Drug Products Corp., 463 U. S. 60, 74-75 (1983).The District Court was correct to conclude that the CDA effectively resembles the ban on "dial-a-porn" invalidated in Sable. 929 F. Supp., at 854. In Sable, 492 U. S., at 129, this Court rejected the argument that we should defer to the congressional judgment that nothing less than a total ban would be effective in preventing enterprising youngsters from gaining access to indecent communications. Sable thus made clear that the mere fact that a statutory regulation of speech was enacted for the important purpose of protecting children from exposure to sexually explicit material does not foreclose inquiry into its validity.41 As we pointed out last40 Accord, Butler v. Michigan, 352 U. S. 380, 383 (1957) (ban on sale to adults of books deemed harmful to children unconstitutional); Sable Communications of Cal., Inc. v. FCC, 492 U. S. 115, 128 (1989) (ban on "dial-aporn" messages unconstitutional); Bolger v. Youngs Drug Products Corp., 463 U. S. 60, 73 (1983) (ban on mailing of unsolicited advertisement for contraceptives unconstitutional).41 The lack of legislative attention to the statute at issue in Sable suggests another parallel with this case. Compare 492 U. S., at 129-130 ("[A]side from conc1usory statements during the debates by proponents of876Term, that inquiry embodies an "overarching commitment" to make sure that Congress has designed its statute to accomplish its purpose "without imposing an unnecessarily great restriction on speech." Denver, 518 U. S., at 741.In arguing that the CDA does not so diminish adult communication, the Government relies on the incorrect factual premise that prohibiting a transmission whenever it is known that one of its recipients is a minor would not interfere with adult-to-adult communication. The findings of the District Court make clear that this premise is untenable. Given the size of the potential audience for most messages, in the absence of a viable age verification process, the sender must be charged with knowing that one or more minors will likely view it. Knowledge that, for instance, one or more members of a 100-person chat group will be a minor-and therefore that it would be a crime to send the group an indecent message-would surely burden communication among adults.42The District Court found that at the time of trial existing technology did not include any effective method for a sender to prevent minors from obtaining access to its communications on the Internet without also denying access to adults. The Court found no effective way to determine the age of a user who is accessing material through e-mail, mail exploders, newsgroups, or chat rooms. 929 F. Supp., at 845 (findings 90-94). As a practical matter, the Court also foundthe bill, as well as similar assertions in hearings on a substantially identical bill the year before, ... the congressional record presented to us contains no evidence as to how effective or ineffective the FCC's most recent regulations were or might prove to be .... No Congressman or Senator purported to present a considered judgment with respect to how often or to what extent minors could or would circumvent the rules and have access to dial-a-porn messages" (footnote omitted)), with n. 24, supra.42 The Government agrees that these provisions are applicable whenever "a sender transmits a message to more than one recipient, knowing that at least one of the specific persons receiving the message is a minor." Opposition to Motion to Affirm and Reply to Juris. Statement 4-5, n. 1.877that it would be prohibitively expensive for noncommercialas well as some commercial-speakers who have Web sites to verify that their users are adults. Id., at 845-848 (findings 95-116).43 These limitations must inevitably curtail a significant amount of adult communication on the Internet. By contrast, the District Court found that "[dJespite its limitations, currently available user-based software suggests that a reasonably effective method by which parents can prevent their children from accessing sexually explicit and other material which parents may believe is inappropriate for their children will soon be widely available." Id., at 842 (finding 73) (emphases added).The breadth of the CDA's coverage is wholly unprecedented. Unlike the regulations upheld in Ginsberg and Pacifica, the scope of the CDA is not limited to commercial speech or commercial entities. Its open-ended prohibitions embrace all nonprofit entities and individuals posting indecent messages or displaying them on their own computers in the presence of minors. The general, undefined terms "indecent" and "patently offensive" cover large amounts of nonpornographic material with serious educational or other value.44 Moreover, the "community standards" criterion as applied to the Internet means that any communication avail-43 The Government asserts that "[t]here is nothing constitutionally suspect about requiring commercial Web site operators ... to shoulder the modest burdens associated with their use." Brief for Appellants 35. As a matter of fact, however, there is no evidence that a "modest burden" would be effective.44 Transmitting obscenity and child pornography, whether via the Internet or other means, is already illegal under federal law for both adults and juveniles. See 18 U. S. C. §§ 1464-1465 (criminalizing obscenity); § 2251 (criminalizing child pornography). In fact, when Congress was considering the CDA, the Government expressed its view that the law was unnecessary because existing laws already authorized its ongoing efforts to prosecute obscenity, child pornography, and child solicitation. See 141 Congo Rec. 16026 (1995) (letter from Kent Markus, Acting Assistant Attorney General, U. S. Department of Justice, to Sen. Leahy).878able to a nationwide audience will be judged by the standards of the community most likely to be offended by the message.45 The regulated subject matter includes any of the seven "dirty words" used in the Pacifica monologue, the use of which the Government's expert acknowledged could constitute a felony. See Olsen Testimony, Tr. Vol. V, 53:1654:10. It may also extend to discussions about prison rape or safe sexual practices, artistic images that include nude subjects, and arguably the card catalog of the Carnegie Library.For the purposes of our decision, we need neither accept nor reject the Government's submission that the First Amendment does not forbid a blanket prohibition on all "indecent" and "patently offensive" messages communicated to a 17-year-old-no matter how much value the message may contain and regardless of parental approval. It is at least clear that the strength of the Government's interest in protecting minors is not equally strong throughout the coverage of this broad statute. Under the CDA, a parent allowing her 17-year-old to use the family computer to obtain information on the Internet that she, in her parental judgment, deems appropriate could face a lengthy prison term. See 47 U. S. C. § 223(a)(2) (1994 ed., Supp. II). Similarly, a parent who sent his 17-year-old college freshman information on birth control via e-mail could be incarcerated even though neither he, his child, nor anyone in their home community found the material "indecent" or "patently offensive," if the college town's community thought otherwise.45 Citing Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. Hialeah, 508 U. S. 520 (1993), among other cases, appellees offer an additional reason why, in their view, the CDA fails strict scrutiny. Because so much sexually explicit content originates overseas, they argue, the CDA cannot be "effective." Brief for Appellees American Library Association et al. 33-34. This argument raises difficult issues regarding the intended, as well as the permissible scope of, extraterritorial application of the CDA. We find it unnecessary to address those issues to dispose of this case.879The breadth of this content-based restriction of speech imposes an especially heavy burden on the Government to explain why a less restrictive provision would not be as effective as the CDA. It has not done so. The arguments in this Court have referred to possible alternatives such as requiring that indecent material be "tagged" in a way that facilitates parental control of material coming into their homes, making exceptions for messages with artistic or educational value, providing some tolerance for parental choice, and regulating some portions of the Internet-such as commercial Web sites-differently from others, such as chat rooms. Particularly in the light of the absence of any detailed findings by the Congress, or even hearings addressing the special problems of the CDA, we are persuaded that the CDA is not narrowly tailored if that requirement has any meaning at all.VIIIIn an attempt to curtail the CDA's facial overbreadth, the Government advances three additional arguments for sustaining the Act's affirmative prohibitions: (1) that the CDA is constitutional because it leaves open ample "alternative channels" of communication; (2) that the plain meaning of the CDA's "knowledge" and "specific person" requirement significantly restricts its permissible applications; and (3) that the CDA's prohibitions are "almost always" limited to material lacking redeeming social value.The Government first contends that, even though the CDA effectively censors discourse on many of the Internet's modalities-such as chat groups, newsgroups, and mail exploders-it is nonetheless constitutional because it provides a "reasonable opportunity" for speakers to engage in the restricted speech on the World Wide Web. Brief for Appellants 39. This argument is unpersuasive because the CDA regulates speech on the basis of its content. A "time, place, and manner" analysis is therefore inapplicable. See Consolidated Edison Co. of N. Y. v. Public Servo Comm'n of N. Y.,880447 U. S. 530, 536 (1980). It is thus immaterial whether such speech would be feasible on the Web (which, as the Government's own expert acknowledged, would cost up to $10,000 if the speaker's interests were not accommodated by an existing Web site, not including costs for data base management and age verification). The Government's position is equivalent to arguing that a statute could ban leaflets on certain subjects as long as individuals are free to publish books. In invalidating a number of laws that banned leafletting on the streets regardless of their content, we explained that "one is not to have the exercise of his liberty of expression in appropriate places abridged on the plea that it may be exercised in some other place." Schneider v. State (Town of Irvington), 308 U. S. 147, 163 (1939).The Government also asserts that the "knowledge" requirement of both §§ 223(a) and (d), especially when coupled with the "specific child" element found in § 223(d), saves the CDA from overbreadth. Because both sections prohibit the dissemination of indecent messages only to persons known to be under 18, the Government argues, it does not require transmitters to "refrain from communicating indecent material to adults; they need only refrain from disseminating such materials to persons they know to be under 18." Brief for Appellants 24. This argument ignores the fact that most Internet forums-including chat rooms, newsgroups, mail exploders, and the Web-are open to all comers. The Government's assertion that the knowledge requirement somehow protects the communications of adults is therefore untenable. Even the strongest reading of the "specific person" requirement of § 223(d) cannot save the statute. It would confer broad powers of censorship, in the form of a "heckler's veto," upon any opponent of indecent speech who might simply log on and inform the would-be discoursers that his 17-year-old child-a "specific person ... under 18 years of age," 47 U. S. C. §223(d)(1)(A) (1994 ed., Supp. H)-would be present.881Finally, we find no textual support for the Government's submission that material having scientific, educational, or other redeeming social value will necessarily fall outside the CDA's "patently offensive" and "indecent" prohibitions. See also n. 37, supra.IXThe Government's three remaining arguments focus on the defenses provided in § 223(e)(5).46 First, relying on the "good faith, reasonable, effective, and appropriate actions" provision, the Government suggests that "tagging" provides a defense that saves the constitutionality of the CDA. The suggestion assumes that transmitters may encode their indecent communications in a way that would indicate their contents, thus permitting recipients to block their reception with appropriate software. It is the requirement that the good-faith action must be "effective" that makes this defense illusory. The Government recognizes that its proposed screening software does not currently exist. Even if it did, there is no way to know whether a potential recipient will actually block the encoded material. Without the impossible knowledge that every guardian in America is screening for the "tag," the transmitter could not reasonably rely on its action to be "effective."For its second and third arguments concerning defenseswhich we can consider together-the Government relies on the latter half of § 223(e)(5), which applies when the transmitter has restricted access by requiring use of a verified credit card or adult identification. Such verification is not only technologically available but actually is used by commercial providers of sexually explicit material. These providers, therefore, would be protected by the defense. Under the findings of the District Court, however, it is not economically feasible for most noncommercial speakers to employ such verification. Accordingly, this defense would not signifi-46 For the full text of § 223(e )(5), see n. 26, supra.882cantly narrow the statute's burden on noncommercial speech. Even with respect to the commercial pornographers that would be protected by the defense, the Government failed to adduce any evidence that these verification techniques actually preclude minors from posing as adults.47 Given that the risk of criminal sanctions "hovers over each content provider, like the proverbial sword of Damocles,"48 the District Court correctly refused to rely on unproven future technology to save the statute. The Government thus failed to prove that the proffered defense would significantly reduce the heavy burden on adult speech produced by the prohibition on offensive displays.We agree with the District Court's conclusion that the CDA places an unacceptably heavy burden on protected speech, and that the defenses do not constitute the sort of "narrow tailoring" that will save an otherwise patently invalid unconstitutional provision. In Sable, 492 U. S., at 127, we remarked that the speech restriction at issue there amounted to "'burn[ing] the house to roast the pig.'" The CDA, casting a far darker shadow over free speech, threatens to torch a large segment of the Internet community.XAt oral argument, the Government relied heavily on its ultimate fall-back position: If this Court should conclude that the CDA is insufficiently tailored, it urged, we should save the statute's constitutionality by honoring the severability clause, see 47 U. S. C. § 608, and construing nonseverable terms narrowly. In only one respect is this argument acceptable.A severability clause requires textual provisions that can be severed. We will follow § 608's guidance by leaving con-47 Thus, ironically, this defense may significantly protect commercial purveyors of obscene postings while providing little (or no) benefit for transmitters of indecent messages that have significant social or artistic value. 48929 F. Supp., at 855-856.883stitutional textual elements of the statute intact in the one place where they are, in fact, severable. The "indecency" provision, 47 U. S. C. § 223(a) (1994 ed., Supp. II), applies to "any comment, request, suggestion, proposal, image, or other communication which is obscene or indecent." (Emphasis added.) Appellees do not challenge the application of the statute to obscene speech, which, they acknowledge, can be banned totally because it enjoys no First Amendment protection. See Miller, 413 U. S., at 18. As set forth by the statute, the restriction of "obscene" material enjoys a textual manifestation separate from that for "indecent" material, which we have held unconstitutional. Therefore, we will sever the term "or indecent" from the statute, leaving the rest of § 223(a) standing. In no other respect, however, can § 223(a) or § 223(d) be saved by such a textual surgery.The Government also draws on an additional, less traditional aspect of the CDA's severability clause, 47 U. S. C. § 608, which asks any reviewing court that holds the statute facially unconstitutional not to invalidate the CDA in application to "other persons or circumstances" that might be constitutionally permissible. It further invokes this Court's admonition that, absent "countervailing considerations," a statute should "be declared invalid to the extent it reaches too far, but otherwise left intact." Brockett v. Spokane Arcades, Inc., 472 U. S. 491, 503-504 (1985). There are two flaws in this argument.First, the statute that grants our jurisdiction for this expedited review, § 561 of the Telecommunications Act of 1961, note following 47 U. S. C. § 223 (1994 ed., Supp. II), limits that jurisdictional grant to actions challenging the CDA "on its face." Consistent with § 561, the plaintiffs who brought this suit and the three-judge panel that decided it treated it as a facial challenge. We have no authority, in this particular posture, to convert this litigation into an "as-applied" challenge. Nor, given the vast array of plaintiffs, the range of their expressive activities, and the vagueness of the stat-884ute, would it be practicable to limit our holding to a judicially defined set of specific applications.Second, one of the "countervailing considerations" mentioned in Brockett is present here. In considering a facial challenge, this Court may impose a limiting construction on a statute only if it is "readily susceptible" to such a construction. Virginia v. American Booksellers Assn., Inc., 484 U. S. 383, 397 (1988). See also Erznoznik v. Jacksonville, 422 U. S. 205, 216 (1975) ("readily subject" to narrowing construction). The open-ended character of the CDA provides no guidance whatever for limiting its coverage.This case is therefore unlike those in which we have construed a statute narrowly because the text or other source of congressional intent identified a clear line that this Court could draw. Cf., e. g., Brockett, 472 U. S., at 504-505 (invalidating obscenity statute only to the extent that word "lust" was actually or effectively excised from statute); United States v. Grace, 461 U. S. 171, 180-183 (1983) (invalidating federal statute banning expressive displays only insofar as it extended to public sidewalks when clear line could be drawn between sidewalks and other grounds that comported with congressional purpose of protecting the building, grounds, and people therein). Rather, our decision in United States v. Treasury Employees, 513 U. S. 454, 479, n. 26 (1995), is applicable. In that case, we declined to "dra[w] one or more lines between categories of speech covered by an overly broad statute, when Congress has sent inconsistent signals as to where the new line or lines should be drawn" because doing so "involves a far more serious invasion of the legislative domain."49 This Court "will not rewrite a ... law49 As this Court long ago explained: "It would certainly be dangerous if the legislature could set a net large enough to catch all possible offenders, and leave it to the courts to step inside and say who could be rightfully detained, and who should be set at large. This would, to some extent, substitute the judicial for the legislative department of the government." United States v. Reese, 92 U. S. 214, 221 (1876). In part because of these885to conform it to constitutional requirements." American Booksellers, 484 U. S., at 397.50XIIn this Court, though not in the District Court, the Government asserts that-in addition to its interest in protecting children-its "[e]qually significant" interest in fostering the growth of the Internet provides an independent basis for upholding the constitutionality of the CDA. Brief for Appellants 19. The Government apparently assumes that the unregulated availability of "indecent" and "patently offensive" material on the Internet is driving countless citizens away from the medium because of the risk of exposing themselves or their children to harmful material.We find this argument singularly unpersuasive. The dramatic expansion of this new marketplace of ideas contradicts the factual basis of this contention. The record demonstrates that the growth of the Internet has been and continues to be phenomenal. As a matter of constitutional tradition, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, we presume that governmental regulation of the content of speech is more likely to interfere with the free exchange of ideas than to encourage it. The interest in encouraging freedom of expression in a democratic society outweighs any theoretical but unproven benefit of censorship.For the foregoing reasons, the judgment of the District Court is affirmed.It is so ordered.separation-of-powers concerns, we have held that a severability clause is "an aid merely; not an inexorable command." Dorchy v. Kansas, 264 U. S. 286, 290 (1924).50 See also Osborne v. Ohio, 495 U. S. 103, 121 (1990) (judicial rewriting of statutes would derogate Congress' "incentive to draft a narrowly tailored law in the first place").886JUSTICE O'CONNOR, with whom THE CHIEF JUSTICE joins, concurring in the judgment in part and dissenting in part.I write separately to explain why I view the Communications Decency Act of 1996 (CDA) as little more than an attempt by Congress to create "adult zones" on the Internet. Our precedent indicates that the creation of such zones can be constitutionally sound. Despite the soundness of its purpose, however, portions of the CDA are unconstitutional because they stray from the blueprint our prior cases have developed for constructing a "zoning law" that passes constitutional muster.Appellees bring a facial challenge to three provisions of the CDA. The first, which the Court describes as the "indecency transmission" provision, makes it a crime to knowingly transmit an obscene or indecent message or image to a person the sender knows is under 18 years old. 47 U. S. C. § 223(a)(1)(B) (1994 ed., Supp. II). What the Court classifies as a single" 'patently offensive display'" provision, see ante, at 859, is in reality two separate provisions. The first of these makes it a crime to knowingly send a patently offensive message or image to a specific person under the age of 18 ("specific person" provision). § 223(d)(1)(A). The second criminalizes the display of patently offensive messages or images "in a[ny] manner available" to minors ("display" provision). § 223(d)(1)(B). None of these provisions purports to keep indecent (or patently offensive) material away from adults, who have a First Amendment right to obtain this speech. Sable Communications of Cal., Inc. v. FCC, 492 U. S. 115, 126 (1989) ("Sexual expression which is indecent but not obscene is protected by the First Amendment"). Thus, the undeniable purpose of the CDA is to segregate indecent material on the Internet into certain areas that minors cannot access. See S. Conf. Rep. No. 104-230, p. 189 (1996) (CDA imposes "access restrictions ... to protect minors from exposure to indecent material").887The creation of "adult zones" is by no means a novel concept. States have long denied minors access to certain establishments frequented by adults.1 States have also denied minors access to speech deemed to be "harmful to minors." 21 See, e. g., Alaska Stat. Ann. § 11.66.300 (1996) (no minors in "adult entertainment" places); Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 13-3556 (1989) (no minors in places where people expose themselves); Ark. Code Ann. §§ 5-27-223, 5-27-224 (1993) (no minors in poolrooms and bars); Colo. Rev. Stat. § 18-7502(2) (1986) (no minors in places displaying movies or shows that are "harmful to children"); Del. Code Ann., Tit. 11, § 1365(i)(2) (1995) (same); D. C. Code Ann. § 22-2001(b)(I)(B) (1996) (same); Fla. Stat. § 847.013(2) (1994) (same); Ga. Code Ann. § 16-12-103(b) (1996) (same); Haw. Rev. Stat. § 712-1215(1)(b) (1994) (no minors in movie houses or shows that are "pornographic for minors"); Idaho Code § 18-1515(2) (1987) (no minors in places displaying movies or shows that are "harmful to minors"); La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 14:91.11(B) (West 1986) (no minors in places displaying movies that depict sex acts and appeal to minors' prurient interest); Md. Ann. Code, Art. 27, §416E (1996) (no minors in establishments where certain enumerated acts are performed or portrayed); Mich. Compo Laws § 750.141 (1991) (no minors without an adult in places where alcohol is sold); Minn. Stat. § 617.294 (1987 and Supp. 1997) (no minors in places displaying movies or shows that are "harmful to minors"); Miss. Code Ann. § 97-5-11 (1994) (no minors in poolrooms, billiard halls, or where alcohol is sold); Mo. Rev. Stat. § 573.507 (1995) (no minors in adult cabarets); Neb. Rev. Stat. § 28-809 (1995) (no minors in places displaying movies or shows that are "harmful to minors"); Nev. Rev. Stat. §201.265(3) (1997) (same); N. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 571-B:2(II) (1986) (same); N. M. Stat. Ann. § 30-37-3 (1989) (same); N. Y. Penal Law §235.21(2) (McKinney 1989) (same); N. D. Cent. Code § 12.1-27.1-03 (1985 and Supp. 1995) (same); 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5903(a) (Supp. 1997) (same); S. D. Compo Laws Ann. §22-24-30 (1988) (same); Tenn. Code Ann. §39-17-911(b) (1991) (same); Vt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 13, §2802(b) (1974) (same); Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-391 (1996) (same).2 See, e. g., Ala. Code § 13A-12-200.5 (1994); Ariz. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 133506 (1989); Ark. Code Ann. § 5-68-502 (1993); Cal. Penal Code Ann. §313.1 (West Supp. 1997); Colo. Rev. Stat. § 18-7-502(1) (1986); Conn. Gen. Stat. § 53a-196 (1994); Del. Code Ann., Tit. 11, § 1365(i)(I) (1995); D. C. Code Ann. § 22-2001(b)(I)(A) (1996); Fla. Stat. § 847.012 (1994); Ga. Code Ann. § 16-12-103(a) (1996); Haw. Rev. Stat. § 712-1215(1) (1994); Idaho Code § 18-1515(1) (1987); Ill. Compo Stat., ch. 720, § 5/11-21 (1993); Ind. Code § 35-49-3-3(1) (Supp. 1996); Iowa Code § 728.2 (1993); Kan. Stat. Ann. §21-4301c(a)(2) (1988); La. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 14:91.11(B) (West 1986);888The Court has previously sustained such zoning laws, but only if they respect the First Amendment rights of adults and minors. That is to say, a zoning law is valid if (i) it does not unduly restrict adult access to the material; and (ii) minors have no First Amendment right to read or view the banned material. As applied to the Internet as it exists in 1997, the "display" provision and some applications of the "indecency transmission" and "specific person" provisions fail to adhere to the first of these limiting principles by restricting adults' access to protected materials in certain circumstances. Unlike the Court, however, I would invalidate the provisions only in those circumstances.IOur cases make clear that a "zoning" law is valid only if adults are still able to obtain the regulated speech. If they cannot, the law does more than simply keep children away from speech they have no right to obtain-it interferes with the rights of adults to obtain constitutionally protected speech and effectively "reduce[s] the adult population ... to reading only what is fit for children." Butler v. Michigan, 352 U. S. 380, 383 (1957). The First Amendment does not tolerate such interference. See ibid. (striking down a Michi-Md. Ann. Code, Art. 27, §416B (1996); Mass. Gen. Laws, ch. 272, §28 (1992); Minn. Stat. § 617.293 (1987 and Supp. 1997); Miss. Code Ann. § 975-11 (1994); Mo. Rev. Stat. § 573.040 (1995); Mont. Code Ann. § 45-8-206 (1995); Neb. Rev. Stat. § 28-808 (1995); Nev. Rev. Stat. §§ 201.265(1), (2) (1997); N. H. Rev. Stat. Ann. § 571-B:2(I) (1986); N. M. Stat. Ann. § 30-37-2 (1989); N. Y. Penal Law § 235.21(1) (McKinney 1989); N. C. Gen. Stat. § 14190.15(a) (1993); N. D. Cent. Code § 12.1-27.1-03 (1985 and Supp. 1995); Ohio Rev. Code Ann. § 2907.31(A)(I) (Supp. 1997); Okla. Stat., Tit. 21, § 1040.76(2) (Supp. 1997); 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 5903(c) (Supp. 1997); R. 1. Gen. Laws § 11-31-10(a) (1996); S. C. Code Ann. § 16-15-385(A) (Supp. 1996); S. D. Compo Laws Ann. §22-24-28 (1988); Tenn. Code Ann. §39-17911(a) (1991); Tex. Penal Code Ann. § 43.24(b) (1994); Utah Code Ann. § 7610-1206(2) (1995); Vt. Stat. Ann., Tit. 13, §2802(a) (1974); Va. Code Ann. § 18.2-391 (1996); Wash. Rev. Code § 9.68.060 (1988 and Supp. 1997); Wis. Stat. § 948.11(2) (Supp. 1995).889gan criminal law banning sale of books-to minors or adults-that contained words or pictures that" 'tende[d] to ... corrup[t] the morals of youth' "); Sable Communications, supra (invalidating federal law that made it a crime to transmit indecent, but nonobscene, commercial telephone messages to minors and adults); Bolger v. Youngs Drug Products Corp., 463 U. S. 60, 74 (1983) (striking down a federal law prohibiting the mailing of unsolicited advertisements for contraceptives). If the law does not unduly restrict adults' access to constitutionally protected speech, however, it may be valid. In Ginsberg v. New York, 390 U. S. 629, 634 (1968), for example, the Court sustained a New York law that barred store owners from selling pornographic magazines to minors in part because adults could still buy those magazines.The Court in Ginsberg concluded that the New York law created a constitutionally adequate adult zone simply because, on its face, it denied access only to minors. The Court did not question-and therefore necessarily assumed-that an adult zone, once created, would succeed in preserving adults' access while denying minors' access to the regulated speech. Before today, there was no reason to question this assumption, for the Court has previously only considered laws that operated in the physical world, a world that with two characteristics that make it possible to create "adult zones": geography and identity. See Lessig, Reading the Constitution in Cyberspace, 45 Emory L. J. 869, 886 (1996). A minor can see an adult dance show only if he enters an establishment that provides such entertainment. And should he attempt to do so, the minor will not be able to conceal completely his identity (or, consequently, his age). Thus, the twin characteristics of geography and identity enable the establishment's proprietor to prevent children from entering the establishment, but to let adults inside.The electronic world is fundamentally different. Because it is no more than the interconnection of electronic pathways, cyberspace allows speakers and listeners to mask their iden-890tities. Cyberspace undeniably reflects some form of geography; chat rooms and Web sites, for example, exist at fixed "locations" on the Internet. Since users can transmit and receive messages on the Internet without revealing anything about their identities or ages, see id., at 901, however, it is not currently possible to exclude persons from accessing certain messages on the basis of their identity.Cyberspace differs from the physical world in another basic way: Cyberspace is malleable. Thus, it is possible to construct barriers in cyberspace and use them to screen for identity, making cyberspace more like the physical world and, consequently, more amenable to zoning laws. This transformation of cyberspace is already underway. Id., at 888-889; id., at 887 (cyberspace "is moving ... from a relatively unzoned place to a universe that is extraordinarily well zoned"). Internet speakers (users who post material on the Internet) have begun to zone cyberspace itself through the use of "gateway" technology. Such technology requires Internet users to enter information about themselves-perhaps an adult identification number or a credit card number-before they can access certain areas of cyberspace, 929 F. Supp. 824, 845 (ED Pa. 1996), much like a bouncer checks a person's driver's license before admitting him to a nightclub. Internet users who access information have not attempted to zone cyberspace itself, but have tried to limit their own power to access information in cyberspace, much as a parent controls what her children watch on television by installing a lock box. This user-based zoning is accomplished through the use of screening software (such as Cyber Patrol or SurfWatch) or browsers with screening capabilities, both of which search addresses and text for keywords that are associated with "adult" sites and, if the user wishes, blocks access to such sites. Id., at 839-842. The Platform for Internet Content Selection project is designed to facilitate user-based zoning by encouraging Internet speakers to rate the content891of their speech using codes recognized by all screening programs. Id., at 838-839.Despite this progress, the transformation of cyberspace is not complete. Although gateway technology has been available on the World Wide Web for some time now, id., at 845; Shea v. Reno, 930 F. Supp. 916, 933-934 (SDNY 1996), it is not available to all Web speakers, 929 F. Supp., at 845-846, and is just now becoming technologically feasible for chat rooms and USE NET newsgroups, Brief for Appellants 3738. Gateway technology is not ubiquitous in cyberspace, and because without it "there is no means of age verification," cyberspace still remains largely unzoned-and unzoneable. 929 F. Supp., at 846; Shea, supra, at 934. U serbased zoning is also in its infancy. For it to be effective, (i) an agreed-upon code (or "tag") would have to exist; (ii) screening software or browsers with screening capabilities would have to be able to recognize the "tag"; and (iii) those programs would have to be widely available-and widely used-by Internet users. At present, none of these conditions is true. Screening software "is not in wide use today" and "only a handful of browsers have screening capabilities." Shea, supra, at 945-946. There is, moreover, no agreedupon "tag" for those programs to recognize. 929 F. Supp., at 848; Shea, supra, at 945.Although the prospects for the eventual zoning of the Internet appear promising, I agree with the Court that we must evaluate the constitutionality of the CDA as it applies to the Internet as it exists today. Ante, at 881. Given the present state of cyberspace, I agree with the Court that the "display" provision cannot pass muster. Until gateway technology is available throughout cyberspace, and it is not in 1997, a speaker cannot be reasonably assured that the speech he displays will reach only adults because it is impossible to confine speech to an "adult zone." Thus, the only way for a speaker to avoid liability under the CDA is to refrain completely from using indecent speech. But this892forced silence impinges on the First Amendment right of adults to make and obtain this speech and, for all intents and purposes, "reduce[s] the adult population [on the Internet] to reading only what is fit for children." Butler, 352 U. S., at 383. As a result, the "display" provision cannot withstand scrutiny. Accord, Sable Communications, 492 U. S., at 126131; Bolger v. Youngs Drug Products Corp., 463 U. S., at 73-75.The "indecency transmission" and "specific person" provisions present a closer issue, for they are not unconstitutional in all of their applications. As discussed above, the "indecency transmission" provision makes it a crime to transmit knowingly an indecent message to a person the sender knows is under 18 years of age. 47 U. S. C. § 223(a)(1)(B) (1994 ed., Supp. II). The "specific person" provision proscribes the same conduct, although it does not as explicitly require the sender to know that the intended recipient of his indecent message is a minor. § 223(d)(1)(A). The Government urges the Court to construe the provision to impose such a knowledge requirement, see Brief for Appellants 2527, and I would do so. See Edward J. DeBartolo Corp. v. Florida Gulf Coast Building & Constr. Trades Council, 485 U. S. 568, 575 (1988) ("[W]here an otherwise acceptable construction of a statute would raise serious constitutional problems, the Court will construe the statute to avoid such problems unless such construction is plainly contrary to the intent of Congress").So construed, both provisions are constitutional as applied to a conversation involving only an adult and one or more minors-e. g., when an adult speaker sends an e-mail knowing the addressee is a minor, or when an adult and minor converse by themselves or with other minors in a chat room. In this context, these provisions are no different from the law we sustained in Ginsberg. Restricting what the adult may say to the minors in no way restricts the adult's ability to communicate with other adults. He is not prevented from893speaking indecently to other adults in a chat room (because there are no other adults participating in the conversation) and he remains free to send indecent e-mails to other adults. The relevant universe contains only one adult, and the adult in that universe has the power to refrain from using indecent speech and consequently to keep all such speech within the room in an "adult" zone.The analogy to Ginsberg breaks down, however, when more than one adult is a party to the conversation. If a minor enters a chat room otherwise occupied by adults, the CDA effectively requires the adults in the room to stop using indecent speech. If they did not, they could be prosecuted under the "indecency transmission" and "specific person" provisions for any indecent statements they make to the group, since they would be transmitting an indecent message to specific persons, one of whom is a minor. Accord, ante, at 876. The CDA is therefore akin to a law that makes it a crime for a bookstore owner to sell pornographic magazines to anyone once a minor enters his store. Even assuming such a law might be constitutional in the physical world as a reasonable alternative to excluding minors completely from the store, the absence of any means of excluding minors from chat rooms in cyberspace restricts the rights of adults to engage in indecent speech in those rooms. The "indecency transmission" and "specific person" provisions share this defect.But these two provisions do not infringe on adults' speech in all situations. And as discussed below, I do not find that the provisions are overbroad in the sense that they restrict minors' access to a substantial amount of speech that minors have the right to read and view. Accordingly, the CDA can be applied constitutionally in some situations. Normally, this fact would require the Court to reject a direct facial challenge. United States v. Salerno, 481 U. S. 739, 745 (1987) ("A facial challenge to a legislative Act [succeeds only if] the challenger ... establish[es] that no set of circum-894stances exists under which the Act would be valid"). Appellees' claim arises under the First Amendment, however, and they argue that the CDA is facially invalid because it is "substantially overbroad"-that is, it "sweeps too broadly ... [and] penaliz[es] a substantial amount of speech that is constitutionally protected," Forsyth County v. Nationalist Movement, 505 U. S. 123, 130 (1992). See Brief for Appellees American Library Association et al. 48; Brief for Appellees American Civil Liberties Union et al. 39-41. I agree with the Court that the provisions are overbroad in that they cover any and all communications between adults and minors, regardless of how many adults might be part of the audience to the communication.This conclusion does not end the matter, however.Where, as here, "the parties challenging the statute are those who desire to engage in protected speech that the overbroad statute purports to punish, ... [t]he statute may forthwith be declared invalid to the extent that it reaches too far, but otherwise left intact." Brockett v. Spokane Arcades, Inc., 472 U. S. 491, 504 (1985). There is no question that Congress intended to prohibit certain communications between one adult and one or more minors. See 47 U. S. C. § 223(a)(1)(B) (1994 ed., Supp. II) (punishing "[w]hoever ... initiates the transmission of [any indecent communication] knowing that the recipient of the communication is under 18 years of age"); § 223(d)(1)(A) (punishing "[w]hoever ... send[s] to a specific person or persons under 18 years of age [a patently offensive message]"). There is also no question that Congress would have enacted a narrower version of these provisions had it known a broader version would be declared unconstitutional. 47 U. S. C. § 608 ("If ... the application [of any provision of the CDA] to any person or circumstance is held invalid, ... the application of such provision to other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby"). I would therefore sustain the "indecency transmission" and "specific person" provisions to the extent they895apply to the transmission of Internet communications where the party initiating the communication knows that all of the recipients are minors.IIWhether the CDA substantially interferes with the First Amendment rights of minors, and thereby runs afoul of the second characteristic of valid zoning laws, presents a closer question. In Ginsberg, the New York law we sustained prohibited the sale to minors of magazines that were "harmful to minors." Under that law, a magazine was "harmful to minors" only if it was obscene as to minors. 390 U. S., at 632-633. Noting that obscene speech is not protected by the First Amendment, Roth v. United States, 354 U. S. 476, 485 (1957), and that New York was constitutionally free to adjust the definition of obscenity for minors, 390 U. S., at 638, the Court concluded that the law did not "invad[e] the area of freedom of expression constitutionally secured to minors," id., at 637. New York therefore did not infringe upon the First Amendment rights of minors. Cf. Erznoznik v. Jacksonville, 422 U. S. 205, 213 (1975) (striking down city ordinance that banned nudity that was not "obscene even as to minors").The Court neither "accept[s] nor reject[s]" the argument that the CDA is facially overbroad because it substantially interferes with the First Amendment rights of minors. Ante, at 878. I would reject it. Ginsberg established that minors may constitutionally be denied access to material that is obscene as to minors. As Ginsberg explained, material is obscene as to minors if it (i) is "patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable ... for minors"; (ii) appeals to the prurient interest of minors; and (iii) is "utterly without redeeming social importance for minors." 390 U. S., at 633. Because the CDA denies minors the right to obtain material that is "patently offensive"-even if it has some redeeming value for minors and even if it does not appeal to their pruri-896ent interests-Congress' rejection of the Ginsberg "harmful to minors" standard means that the CDA could ban some speech that is "indecent" (i. e., "patently offensive") but that is not obscene as to minors.I do not deny this possibility, but to prevail in a facial challenge, it is not enough for a plaintiff to show "some" overbreadth. Our cases require a proof of "real" and "substantial" overbreadth, Broadrick v. Oklahoma, 413 U. S. 601, 615 (1973), and appellees have not carried their burden in this case. In my view, the universe of speech constitutionally protected as to minors but banned by the CDA-i. e., the universe of material that is "patently offensive," but which nonetheless has some redeeming value for minors or does not appeal to their prurient interest-is a very small one. Appellees cite no examples of speech falling within this universe and do not attempt to explain why that universe is substantial "in relation to the statute's plainly legitimate sweep." Ibid. That the CDA might deny minors the right to obtain material that has some "value," see ante, at 878, is largely beside the point. While discussions about prison rape or nude art, see ibid., may have some redeeming educational value for adults, they do not necessarily have any such value for minors, and under Ginsberg, minors only have a First Amendment right to obtain patently offensive material that has "redeeming social importance for minors," 390 U. S., at 633 (emphasis added). There is also no evidence in the record to support the contention that "many e-mail transmissions from an adult to a minor are conversations between family members," ante, at 865, n. 32, and no support for the legal proposition that such speech is absolutely immune from regulation. Accordingly, in my view, the CDA does not burden a substantial amount of minors' constitutionally protected speech.Thus, the constitutionality of the CDA as a zoning law hinges on the extent to which it substantially interferes with the First Amendment rights of adults. Because the rights897of adults are infringed only by the "display" provision and by the "indecency transmission" and "specific person" provisions as applied to communications involving more than one adult, I would invalidate the CDA only to that extent. Insofar as the "indecency transmission" and "specific person" provisions prohibit the use of indecent speech in communications between an adult and one or more minors, however, they can and should be sustained. The Court reaches a contrary conclusion, and from that holding I respectfully dissent.