Before And After School Care Service 2015-2016 For Ecs: Fill & Download for Free

Q. How can a veteran get into an Ivy League school?A. There is an organization of veterans in the Ivy League. There are several articles in newspapers and magazines.The Ivy League Veterans CouncilConfessions Of A Vet Who Went To HBSVeterans and Ivy League (A salute to Cornell, Dartmouth, and Columbia)Ivy League and Veterans (Reddit)Why Don’t Top-Tier Colleges Care About Enrolling Veterans? (2013)Rice University Veterans Education Benefits (not Ivy League, but well regarded), Military at Rice (Military Scholars Program - full cost of attendance scholarship for veterans in the Jones School of Business)The Ivy League Veterans CouncilABOUT MEMBERS CALL TO ACTION SUPPORTING ORGANIZATIONSContact Us Veterans in the NewsVeterans in the Ivy League: Students Seek to Up Their RanksBy THE ASSOCIATED PRESSNOV. 1, 2016, 7:33 A.M. E.D.T.PROVIDENCE, R.I. — It's not easy to find military veterans in undergraduate programs at most Ivy League schools.Harvard has only three in its undergrad liberal arts and sciences school. Princeton, just one.Students from the eight Ivies hope to change those kinds of numbers. They see a chance for institutions to diversify and for veterans to get an education that will help them become leaders.Nov 3, 2016Where Are Veterans at Our Elite Colleges? (NYTimes)The tally noted just two veterans among undergraduates at Duke, one at M.I.T., one at Pomona and zero at Carleton.“These schools all wring their hands and say, ‘We’d love to have more, but they just don’t apply,’ ” Sloane said. “That’s what offends me. These schools have incredibly sophisticated recruitment teams. They recruit quarterbacks. They fill the physics lab. They visit high schools. How many visits did they make for veterans?”Sep 7, 2016Marine Corps Partners with Columbia University (Military.com)Columbia University recently announced that eligible Marines planning to exit the U.S. Marine Corps will for the first time have formalized, national program to access a top-tier undergraduate education. Through the Leadership Scholar Program, a partnership developed by the U.S. Marine Corps and leading colleges and universities, qualified Marines are identified by their commanding officers and are then shepherded through the college admissions process on their respective Marine Corps bases.Aug 26, 2016The Nonprofit Helping Veterans Get Into The Country’s Top Colleges (Task & Purpose)Army veteran Sang Ra never thought he'd go to an Ivy League college until he connected with the nonprofit, Service to School.Aug 21, 2016Lima Charlie Team Spotlight: Mike ConnollyOur VP of Communications did an interview with Lima Charlie News on his involvement there. Give it a read!Aug 21, 2016Posse Foundation Announces New Veteran PossesWe’re excited to have our THREE newest Veterans Posses at national headquarters in New York for Pre-Collegiate Training! These Scholars will attend Dartmouth, Vassar College and Wesleyan University in the fall. http://www.possefoundation.org/veterans ‪#‎PosseVetsLead‬Jul 21, 2016Confessions Of A Vet Who Went To HBSOver five years ago, I began taking the steps necessary to attend business school. I took the GMAT, arranged my letters of recommendation, filled out applications, wrote essays, and did my interviews over Skype or phone from Iraq.Jul 21, 2016Veterans Groups Seek a Crackdown on Deceptive Colleges (NYTimes)WASHINGTON — Some of the nation’s largest veterans and military organizations sent letters last week to the Veterans Affairs Department asking it to crack down on colleges that prey on veterans by charging exorbitant fees for degrees that mostly fail to deliver promised skills and jobs.Jul 3, 2016As A Poor Kid From The Rust Belt, Yale Law School Brought Me Face-to-face With Radical Inequality (HuffPo)“I have never felt out of place in my entire life. But I did at Yale.”Jul 3, 2016Veterans Deserve a Chance in College, Not a Free Pass (NYTimes)MY six years in the Marine Corps taught me the importance of learning the basics...Jun 18, 2016Confessions Of A Vet Who Went To HBSBY: MARTIN PETERS ON JULY 07, 2016 |5 COMMENTSThis article was contributed by Service to School, a nonprofit that provides free application assistance for veterans transitioning from the service to undergrad, MBA, and JD programs. Service to School has helped over 300 veterans into the nation’s top undergraduate and graduate school programs.Over five years ago, I began taking the steps necessary to attend business school. I took the GMAT, arranged my letters of recommendation, filled out applications, wrote essays, and did my interviews over Skype or phone from Iraq.First, a little background. At the time I matriculated in 2012, I was a 30-year-old West Point 2004 grad, eight years on active duty in the infantry with four deployments, and was (and still am) married, with three dogs. I graduated from Harvard Business School in May of 2014 and started work with Boston Consulting Group in September of 2014.My thoughts involve some MOTO (Master of the Obvious) statements about school and life. Hopefully, though, some of my thoughts are something you, the reader, may not have thought about. I’ll add the disclaimer that everyone’s experiences are unique (and mine in particular are based heavily on HBS). Still, for what they are worth, here they are — with the up-front thought that my MBA experience was a great one and I would do it again in a heartbeat.SCHOOL SELECTIONStrive to get into a top 10 MBA program (HBS, GSB, MIT, Darden, McCombs, Kellogg, Booth, Tuck, UPenn, Fuqua, Ross, etc.). An MBA from a top 10 program is certainly worth it, but I question the return on a non-top 10 program because many top firms specifically recruit at the top schools.GET TO SCHOOL A MONTH EARLYHBS started in late August. My wife, Megan, and I arrived in the beginning of the month and immediately linked up on Facebook with the HBS 2014 Boston Admit group, whose membership swelled as school got closer and people began moving to Cambridge. Megan and I began meeting and hanging out with people throughout the month. When I went to school the first day, I already knew 60-70 people by name, both in and outside of my section. Also, I maintained relationships with most of that summer crew because we met prior to the pressures of school and other social commitments. Meeting fellow classmates, then, was novel and not overwhelming like the first couple months.DEFINITION OF SUCCESSThe Army makes it very easy to know when you have been successful in its eyes — you are promoted, you get the next position, and/or you get a thank-you from your soldier. On the wall of every company and above CP are the institution’s definitions of success — the chain of command. Leaving active-duty changed that. In business school, the definition of success is much more ambiguous. Certainly, in large corporations there are well-established measures of success, but outside of those, success takes many forms and is truly dependent on the person. No longer is an easily acceptable definition provided. It is up to YOU to create your own personal definition of success.LACK OF CAMARADERIEYou read and hear about it: When people leave the military, they miss the camaraderie. It’s true. During my first couple months at HBS, I missed the intense friendships that come with having intense shared experiences (deployments and field problems) toward a common goal. For soldiers who were only in for three years or who never deployed, it may not be an issue. But for someone who went to West Point and then served eight years on active duty with four deployments, it was an issue. Initially, I felt many of my relationships were skin-deep, and I was always putting up a perfectionist front. Slowly, over time, I developed a core group of friends, yet the majority of what I call my “vacation friends” were primarily veterans. We simply had the most in common.WHAT VETERANS BRING TO THE CLASSROOMHere is what veterans bring to the classroom: leadership, real-world experience, and exposure to the military.The Army provides leadership experiences at extremely early stages in a soldier’s career. At 23, I was leading an infantry platoon in Afghanistan with an area of operations the size of Rhode Island. My final assignment was as a headquarters company commander of 250 soldiers during our deployment to Iraq. An infantry buck sergeant, or team leader, has more direct leadership experience than the majority of my business school classmates. It is not entirely their fault, because the industries many of my classmates come from (at HBS, one-third finance and one-third consulting) simply do not provide direct leadership opportunities early in their careers. During an informal survey of my 90 section mates, I learned that two-thirds of the class never had a direct report (subordinate) and the majority of the remaining third had from one to five direct reports. Only myself, another veteran, and one other classmate had ever led more than 15 people.The second great thing vets bring to the classroom is experience in an organization where not everyone has a college degree. Think about it. Many of my classmates, if they came from a consulting or finance background, went to undergrad and then to work at top-tier firms (the typical pipeline to HBS), and their only interaction with a person without a college degree was at grocery stores with cashiers or restaurants with waiters. Army veterans have worked with a wide variety of people who have varied backgrounds. It broadens your perspective and understanding.Finally, most of my classmates, unless they have parents or siblings in the military or are veterans themselves, have very little knowledge of the military outside of Hollywood or the news. With an all-volunteer military, it is simply something they do not think about. My classmates were keenly interested in hearing about the military. For some, I was the first person in the military they ever spoke with (which blew my mind). A Chinese student in my section wrote an email at the end of the first year to all the vets in my section stating that we had changed her view on the American military because she had been taught that we were all automatons. It made me feel good.Harvard Business School graduation for the Class of 2016INTERNATIONAL DIVERSITYI felt that HBS oversells its international diversity. I got the feeling the majority of international students were “international” in passport only. They had gone to American universities for undergrad, worked for American companies, and would be going back to work for American companies following HBS. While brilliant, they brought little “international” diversity to the table.RECRUITINGTry your best to identify early, if not before school, what industries you would like to recruit for. Narrowing your choices will save you a lot of time during recruiting.INTERN APPLICATIONSI’d limit your job applications to about 10. If you are applying to more than 10 companies, I don’t think you have properly done your research and it will show during the interview. I applied to eight companies during recruitment, and even that was a lot to keep track of. On one of my interviews, I had had no time to research the company or network and it definitely showed.Expect to get dings (rejections), even when you’re applying from Harvard. For high-performing individuals, it will be the first time you may have been told thanks, but no thanks. Expect it. It builds character.EXPLOIT YOUR STATUS AS A STUDENTExploit it when making phone calls and visits with alumni, potential employers, and others. Most people will give you a minute if you are a student. After graduation, you are just another dude/dudette.GRADESThe sooner you stop worrying about them, the better and more stress-free your experience will be. At HBS there is little transparency and the grading system to me was very subjective, with 50% of your grade based on class participation and 50% based on a case exam. You receive little to no feedback on either grade until you receive them a month after taking the exam. By then, you have stopped thinking about it.Coming from West Point, where I studied to a degree that amazes me a decade later, not worrying about grades took some getting used to. You need to understand why you are at business school. If you want top honors, crush it. If you want to develop yourself personally, learn a new hobby, or try new things, crush it. In the decade since West Point, I learned that there is more to life than grades (not an excuse to sham, but I don’t have the single-minded academic drive that I once had at West Point).VETERAN STATUSRid yourself of any form of veteran entitlement that seems to have crept up. You cannot rest on your laurels. Your veteran resume with its accompanying experiences will assist greatly in getting that first interview with companies, but after that you must prepare for the interview and then perform during your internship.HOUSING (HBS SPECIFIC)On campus or off campus, it doesn’t matter. If you are off campus, try staying within a mile of campus and you won’t miss anything. The main social scene at HBS revolves around the campus and Harvard Square (and club parties in downtown Boston if you choose to do them). If you live off campus, get a bike.CLASSESAt HBS, your first year is all required curriculum (RC) so you have no choice in what you take. Your second year (EC), you choose your courses. Take some time to plan your schedule. Talk with current second-year students and look at course reviews. While I was happy with my course selections and thought the allocation system to get into them was equitable, I wish I had done a little more deliberate planning on what courses to take.My favorites second-year courses were The Coming of Managerial Capitalism, taught by Professor Nicholas (a history-like course and Professor Nicholas was awesome); Business at the Base of the Pyramid, by Professor Michael Chu (interesting course that took a while to gain steam/catch my interest, but the last half was enlightening); and The Energy Business and Geopolitics, taught by Professor Maurer (I want to go into the energy industry post-BCG and this course was absolutely fascinating).Harvard Business School – Ethan Baron photoWORKLOADIf you went to a service academy, do not stress about the workload. I found the academic workload at Harvard underwhelming compared to West Point. All the books, all the blogs, blah blah, stress how busy it is. I was never as busy on any single day at HBS as I was at West Point, hands down.Your first month you will be busy as you learn the ropes, but after that your busy-ness is primarily a factor of your priorities and is mainly self-induced (how much stuff you voluntarily pile onto your academic load). I did Reserve drill, volunteered weekly at a local school, mentored a Harvard ROTC cadet weekly, helped out with the MIT ROTC program a little, continued my long-distance running routine (I did 3.85 marathons while at HBS … at Mile 22 ruck marching with cadets when the bombs went off and they closed the course), and took a photography class at the New England School of Photography in addition to the normal academic workload at HBS.My priorities at HBS had changed from my single-minded focus on academics at West Point to realizing that academics are only one aspect of the HBS/life experience.Also, whenever I felt busy, I thought of my classmates with three kids and my woe-is-me party ended immediately.PARTYINGI thought Army lieutenants partied hard after a deployment. Then I went to HBS. Be prepared for a large social scene.Ignore Fear of Missing Out (FOMO) and realize early on that there are club/section parties/get-togethers on most evenings. It is all about priorities. If your priority is partying, then you have found your home in business school. But if you have other priorities, don’t worry about not going out every night. At the end of the day, going out drinking with section mates is not some mind-blowing, nirvana-attaining affair that will make or break your experience. It’s just getting drinks with people.For HBS, the key parties/events to attend are: RC Halloween Party, RC Priscilla Ball, RC Newport Ball, RC Holidazzle, the EC Gala, and section retreats. Anything else I would pick and choose going to.AGGRESSIVELY SOCIALBusiness school people are what I would call “aggressively social.” Sometimes it is overwhelming, but it makes it easy to meet people.RESERVES WHILE AT SCHOOLI continued to serve in the Army Reserves while at school, and I am one of the few who is staying in post-HBS, for a couple of reasons: 1) I transferred my remaining GI Bill benefits to my wife so she could attend school; 2) I am more deeply appreciative now of the privilege of being able to put the uniform on as opposed to when I was on active duty and took it for granted; and 3) If not me, then who?While at business school, the one weekend a month and two weeks during the summer did not provide any issues. Units post their drill schedules in advance for the coming fiscal year, so I knew well in advance of every weekend when I would be gone and when my annual training was set. Did I miss some parties or trips? Yes, but after a month at business school you realize parties are a dime a dozen and trips/treks occur at an uncanny frequency. My Reserve unit worked with me to conduct Rescheduled Training (RST) for the summer internship, so during my first-year spring break, instead of going to *insert X exotic destination*, I went to Fort Devens, Massachusetts, to knock out my drill requirements. This enabled me to stay in Dallas, where I was interning, the entire summer instead of flying back to Massachusetts. Further, Boston Consulting Group pushed my internship up two weeks ahead of the primary summer intern cohort so I could attend my unit’s active training (I finished my internship on a Friday and reported that Saturday for active training). You work it and make it happen.The main positives of staying in the Reserves at school are: 1) Personal pride and satisfaction; 2) They help you stay grounded and get outside the business school bubble; 3) You have a steady, though small, income coming in (two years of O-3/O-4 Reserve pay comes out to under $20,000 net free of taxes so that is $20,000 in debt I do not have); and 4) Health insurance that was cheaper than the school’s option. The main drawbacks are that it takes time (though manageable) and your experience will vary with your unit — just like active duty, some units are good and others are a drag.If you are staying in the Reserves, I recommend that you interview your unit.Talk with the commander and get a feel for his/her leadership style. You select the unit you want to go to, so if the commander gives you a bad vibe, look for another unit.Ask for the drill, AT, and mobilization schedules. Check the drill schedule to see how many MUTA 5’s (Friday evening, Saturday, Sunday), or MUTA 6’s (Friday, Saturday, Sunday, or Saturday, Sunday, Monday) they have. Make sure their annual training is in August (most units’ ATs are), which is workable with an internship versus a June or July annual training. See where they are in the ARFORGEN cycle to make sure you won’t get called up in the middle of school!If possible, stop by a unit for an hour or two during their BTA to see what they actually do.Ask the unit and commander how much work they expect you to do outside of drill weekends. Some units/commanders expect a significant amount of work outside of drill. It varies tremendously with units, position, ARFORGEN cycle. For many reservists this will make or break the Reserve experience.Manage your expectations … it is not active duty infantry anymore.TRANSFER OF GI BILL BENEFITSArmy Reservists can transfer their GI Bill benefits to their dependents. You incur an extra four years of service on the date of transfer. The process was extremely simple to do online. I transferred mine during the spring of my second year, but I wish I had done it immediately upon leaving active duty so that 18 months of the four-year commitment would have been my time at HBS. I plan on serving beyond the four years, but it is nice serving at my leisure versus serving because of a contractual obligation.With this, my wife is attending the University of Michigan to get her Master of Architecture degree “for free” and we get the housing stipend as well ($1,578 a month).ENJOY ITDon’t fall prey to cynicism. Enjoy the experience. It goes by ridiculously fast.BE HUMBLEOne of my main goals coming from HBS is to do well in the business world, yet *knocking on wood* regardless of the amount of success I may have, I want to remain humble.“You can’t help when or what you were born, you may not be able to help how you die; but you can — and you should — try to pass the days between as a good man …” — Sam Damon from Once an EagleIf you made it this far, get after it.Author Martin Peters is a graduate of the United States Military Academy and served eight years on active duty as an infantryman with four deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan, concluding his time as an HHC commander. Following active duty, he attended Harvard Business School and joined the Boston Consultant Group as a consultant. He continues to serve as a major in the Army Reserves, training battalion- and above-level staffs, and is passionate about veterans. Martin is an ambassador for Service to School and has successfully assisted several veterans applying to MBA programs. Martin is married, has three dogs, and currently lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan.Veterans and Ivy LeagueA Salute to Cornell, Dartmouth, and ColumbiaMarch 15, 2015Ivy Coach salutes Cornell University, Dartmouth College, and Columbia University for their outstanding track record of supporting our troops. It is to be commended.As you may know, Ivy Coach is deeply committed to helping America’s veterans and current members of our military (which also can include veterans) gain admission to the colleges of their dreams. It’s work we’ve been doing for years and it’s some of the most fulfilling, rewarding work we do. We are so proud of the many veterans across highly selective college campuses whom we had the privilege — and that’s precisely what it is — to work with in the admissions process. But we are also aware that we have a voice in the admissions process and we’d be remiss not to raise it to commend Ivy League institutions that do right by veterans and shame other Ivy League institutions that we don’t believe properly support our troops. Just because all Ivy League institutions are “Yellow Ribbon” does not mean they are all equally supportive to veterans. Being “Yellow Ribbon” simply means they have agreed to contribute some money towards tuition costs. As an example, while not an Ivy League school, Johns Hopkins University contributes $1,000 annually per student. That’s not going to cut it. But back to the Ivy League…Cornell University, we salute you! The Post 9/11 G.I. Bill offers only a certain amount of money towards annual tuition ($19,200 for private universities and $8,900 for public universities). Cornell covers the remainder of the tuition (making them “Yellow Ribbon”). They welcome these brave men and women into their schools as though they are any other students pursuing college degrees. And that’s exactly how it should be. Cornell University has earned an ‘A’ in our book. They’d get an ‘A+’ if they didn’t have a cap of 100 veterans whom they can have on campus at a time under the “Yellow Ribbon Program,” a cap that also includes dependents (not just the troops themselves).Dartmouth College, we salute you! It’s all love from us for this fellow “Yellow Ribbon” university. With respect to veterans, you are the crown jewel of the Ivy League. Dartmouth College supports our troops and may the world know it. Dartmouth College covers the full cost of tuition that is beyond the funds from the Post 9/11 G.I. Bill. And they have no cap on the number of veterans they admit each admissions cycle. Dartmouth doesn’t have to do the right thing. But Dartmouth chooses to. Dartmouth College has earned an ‘A+’ in our book. Other Ivy League colleges may say they support our troops but Dartmouth speaks softly with one very big stick.And Columbia University, we salute you, too! You may not cover the full cost of tuition, contributing $8,000 annually per student. But maybe it’s because you admit so many vets! And you admit all of these vets through your General Studies Program. This way, their numbers don’t hurt your “US News & World Report” ranking. It’s a creative workaround and we salute you for this workaround because it means more veterans studying on your campus. For this, we’ll give you an ‘A.’ Columbia, you deserve it.But that’s just about where the love fest ends. Check back soon to find out what we have to say about the remaining Ivies’ admissions policies towards our troops. It won’t be all puppy dogs and ice cream.And, veterans, this is a terrific tool to use to measure a university’s “Yellow Ribbon” contributions against another.Ivy League and Veterans (Reddit)drlovespooge 1 year agoI'm in a SEC university right now, and honestly the childish behavior of the student is killing me. I'm 23, USMC vet making great grades, and have been looking into Ivy League (Dartmouth, Cornell) schools in the hopes of finding more academic rigor with a little more serious atmosphere.Does anyone have any experience, or currently enrolled in any top tier institutions who could give me some insight?I'm a Marine veteran at Columbia university. Columbia has by far the largest population of veterans, and provides the most support. We have just over 400 undergrads who are vets, which is about 4% of all the undergrads in the school. The other Ivies have a handful each. Brown and Dartmouth each have a dozen or so. Yale and Cornell about half that. Princeton and Harvard have 1 or 2 at most.At Columbia we have a very active Veterans group called Milvets (check us out on Facebook www.Facebook.com/CUMilvets and Twitter @Milvets) that does social events, hosts speakers, organizes career info and recruiting events, and throws a big Marine Corps Birthday Ball-style gala every year.As others have stated, the biggest change transitioning from a lower-tier school is the increased workload, particularly reading. I personally find the other students to be noticeably smarter and more mature here. I've made friends with a lot of traditional-age students and found them to be very driven.Some stuff you should be aware of:-Several of the Ivies have special application processes for nontraditional students; people like Veterans, retired professional athletes, Olympic figure skaters, etc. Applying through these is a higher chance of admission than what the overall admission stats would lead you to believe. They like the diversity having interesting people attend brings to the school. The ones who have programs like this are: *Columbia - school of general studies (note, this is just an administrative division, not a separate school like Harvard Extension School. GS students are "real" Columbia students, are in the same classes, and earn the same degree) *Yale - Eli Whitney Scholars Program *Brown - Resumed Undergraduate Education (RUE) program *Penn - (I forget the name. Will edit later)-Also, several other top schools have a partnership with non-profits which feed them Veterans. Service to School is a nonprofit that sets you up with a mentor already attending the school who helps you through the application process. They have a partnership with Yale, Cornell, MIT, Columbia, and a few others that will get you a garenteed interview with admissions and get your application to the top of the pile. Dartmouth also partners with a nonprofit called the Posse Foundation, which creates a cohort of ten Veterans who the school admits as a group, and then those ten serve as a pre-made peer support network.-A third nonprofit, the Warrior Scholar Project, does couple-week-long seminars at various too schools, including Ivies like Yale and Harvard, to teach Veterans skills to succeed at top schools. It is all-expenses-paid, food and lodging provided, and you get to see what the Ivies are like in person. WSP alumni have a good record of getting accepted to top schools afterward.Jim_Nebna 1 year agoI am an Army vet that transferred into Cornell. What kind of info are you looking for?drlovespooge 1 year agoOverall impressions and such. Also the challenge of the classes. I'm worried that classes are easy here, but I will struggle at a more difficult school. Also, curious about admissions and veteran resources around the university.Jim_Nebna 1 year agoIt was a great experience. Almost all of the classes were excellent. A few were not. I did well at my prior school and my first semester after transferring was very rough. You will have to adjust to the workload. Depending on your major, reading multiple books, having several problem sets, and/or writing multiple papers per week is not out of the norm.I found transferring to be pretty straight forward. I started in 2008 and resources were basically non-existent. It was the same at my prior school as well. By the time I had left the VA rep was telling me about programs I had never heard of.drlovespooge 1 year agoWow, how were you able to stay afloat while transitioning? I mean my workload now is a joke, so that's going to be interesting.Jim_Nebna 1 year agoDiscipline and between my then wife's stipend, and the GI Bill, I did not need to work. Which depending on where you wind up can be a challenge.I would highly suggest getting to know some of your current or prior professors. Do an independent study with them or build some rapport other than "He was in my class". Everyone who applies will have a good GPA. Having a good GPA, showing that you have already been successful at another school, and good reference letters will greatly increase your chances.bruceholder84 1 year agoI understand. I chose online classes because I'm not great at biting my tounge and could see this being an issue in a traditional classroombrianwillneverdiejarhead 1 year agoHey u/drlovesspooge, I'm a USMC vet and am the president of the student group at Columbia. We've got a vibrant community of 400+ enlisted vets. Definitely recommend it. The academic rigor and serious atmosphere are both here, but we have our share of childish behavior. Happens at every college. I'm headed to the Student Veterans of America conference in Orlando but can answer any questions you may have and connect you to some great organizations that help vets apply to top schools. Will DM you my emailroost9i 1 year agoI had a similar experience at my state Uni. It was the worst in the first year and tapered off a lot towards my junior year when the insincere fell out. But you just have to expect it. Even in my senior year there were classmates just wasting their parents' money.MFW: "Am I the only one around here that wants to graduate!"The best classes were the ones where I could find other disciplined people to form study groups with.akamustacherides 1 year agoI started off like you, went to state school and was making the dean's list with little effort. The maturity level of the students didn't bother me because at the end of the day it was me and my performance I had to face. Into my third year I started dating an attorney with a prestigious education and she convinced me that I would be better off at a different school. I transferred to a school in the northeast, it was more of a challenge, it gave me more opportunities because it had more clout, and the student body was more serious. The difference now is that I am paying off bigger student loans than if I would have stayed in the state school.jbow808 1 year agoI went to a Top 50 school that offered a great program for non-traditional students, since I graduated it's become an on-line only program.Most of my cohorts in the program where in their late 20's to early 40's and coming from a community college where I was surrounded by mostly 16 - 20 year olds who texted and surfed the web during lectures. Students tend to take academics more seriously of they're footing the bill.As far as rigor goes, the program was on par with the "traditional" offerings at the school and no one knows I was in the special program unless I tell them.I even recall hearing a professor or 2 saying they preferred teaching to older students, since they know how to think (as opposed to just wanting the answers for the final exam), are more engaged in classroom discussions, and generally more respectful of their time and experience.IntendoPrinceps 1 year agoMarine buddy of mine is at Dartmouth, and he hates it. Everyone in his program is super young, and he comes home whenever possible and has taken many breaks from school. There isn't a real city nearby so the only young adults are grad students, according to him, and they mostly socialize with each other.My friend is an extrovert and very sociable, so it's not like he stays at his apartment all of the time. He even joined a frat but that didn't help much.harDCore182 1 year agoTuck MBA is my dream. Heard grad life is better than undergrad there.cwood74 1 year agoWent to Harvard for a masters program college kids are still kids. I went to a party school for undergrad and it was a noticeable difference in terms of difficulty and attitude but nothing like the military.drlovespooge 1 year agoWhat kind background did you come from when applying? I'm thinking about graduating from here, but going to a top tier school for my JD/MBAcwood74 1 year agoI went for computer science my grades were at the low side for top 20 around 3.8 GPA. What really saved me was letters of recommendation from employers and volunteering on open source projects. The top schools seem to care about someone that is really focused and dedicated to being good at one thing instead of mediocre at everything. I met people they turned down later that I would have considered a much better candidate than me.gijose 1 year agoI'm a junior at Brown, and I know for certain that the school has an interest in attracting more veterans. Brown has its own thing going—totally open curriculum, weird grading scheme, very liberal students—but it's a top-tier school and has a backdoor application for "non-traditional" students. If you have any questions PM me and I'll try to answer them.fezha 10 months agoBrown really wants more vets. This is true. In the cracks of the internet, I found a PDF detailing Brown's struggles to attract and connect with Vets. They even acknowledged other Ivies were attracting vets, but they couldn't.To be honest, I believe it's location. Brown is all the motherfucking way in Rhode Island. If prostitution was still legal in Rhode Island I would apply there...hahahah.....haha......yeah.talab 10 months agoConsidering the population density in the northeast is among the highest in the nation, I don't think location is really an issue. My theory is that it's more about the political climate — I've seen the studies suggesting political ideologies in the military are varied, but in my experience, the military is a very conservative organization — because Brown is among the most liberal campuses in the country. I also think that among enlisted personnel there's a culture of inferiority. People I served just don't see themselves being "smart" enough to study at Brown or any other Ivy, which is unfortunate.LEM413 1 year agoI'm not a vet, but I'm a Tufts University graduate, and one of my good friends who graduated with me is also a USMC vet. They have a program for non-traditional students called the REAL program (http://uss.tufts.edu/undergradEducation/academics/real/), which is basically just a separate admissions process. Other than that, you're a full-fledged Tufts student able to enroll as either a liberal arts or engineering student. As far as the specifics of the admissions process itself, u/beltayn88 can provide more insight into that, since he went through it personally.Tufts is definitely a school that attracts a particular kind of student, in that pretty much everybody is very academically motivated but not competitive in the way that you see in Ivy League schools. I wouldn't have traded my experience there for anywhere else. Their dean has stated that they want to recruit more veterans to attend as well.Why Don’t Top-Tier Colleges Care About Enrolling Veterans (2013)?By Wick SloaneNo veterans here?Photo by Glen Cooper/Getty ImagesThis article originally appeared in Inside Higher Ed.If you can believe it, the number of undergraduate veterans at the nation’s self-proclaimed most highly selective colleges is significantly fewer than we reported in 2011. The total this year: 168*. The * is because, again, too many of these colleges, the 31 invitation-only members of the Consortium on Financing Higher Education (COFHE), don’t know. The number may bounce again.“Disgraceful and absurd” is what I called the 232 total veterans in 2011. By comparison, the total number of veterans and dependents of veterans using the Post-9/11 GI Bill rose from 555,329 students in 2011 to 646,302 in 2012. From 232 to 174 to 168—with the nation at war and 118,784 total undergraduate seats at the 31 COFHE colleges.Lost for synonyms, I asked Andrew Bacevich, retired U.S. Army colonel and author of Breach of Trust: How Americans Failed Their Soldiers and Their Country, to describe the pitiful count of veterans at selective colleges. Bacevich is an eloquent critic of all of us—we, the people—for letting 1 percent of the population bear the nation’s military burden—fighting, deaths, and wounds.“Here is an issue where the nation's most prestigious institutions should demonstrate some leadership,” Bacevich said. “With a very few admirable exceptions, they have failed to do so. That failure is nothing less than shameful.” (Listen to Bacevich on The Colbert Report and on Moyers & Company.)Some colleges had been including the combined totals of both veterans and veteran dependents and family members using the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill in their count of veteran students. In 2011, Cornell University reported 48 veterans, with just one confirmed veteran this year. Duke University reported 22 veterans in 2011 and one this year. Rice University originally reported having 27 veterans last year but then amended that number to one veteran last year and one this year. Northwestern University reported 45 undergraduates who are either veterans or dependents, with the administration relying on a student group to sort out the details.Lows for 2013: Yale University, two. Princeton University, one. Williams College, zero. Swarthmore College, zero. Harvard University—which did not reply to last year’s survey—reported 19 veterans this year but did not clarify whether that number includes dependents. The 27 veterans that Stanford University originally reported turned out to include dependents, and the administration hasn’t clarified the number yet.Highs: University of Pennsylvania, 35. Georgetown University, 25—with 81 total traditional and nontraditional undergraduates, including veterans and active-duty military. Johns Hopkins University, 23. Washington University in St. Louis, 20. University of Rochester, 16. Dartmouth College, 14—one down from last year.“Veterans can’t do the work,” an Ivy League president told me a few years ago.Again, there have been too many evasions and excuses and circumlocutions for one column. Yale President Peter Salovey didn’t think the question of why Yale has just two veterans was worth much time. Or Columbia, which again proclaimed unquestionable success with “about 300” veterans in its School of General Studies program. (This is separate from its main undergraduate college, Columbia College.) Or Columbia, again, declining to reply to the following questions: “Why can’t veterans get a degree from Columbia College, too?” and “What is the endowment of Columbia College versus the endowment of the School of General Studies?”Two years ago, Vassar College President Catharine Hill and Posse Foundation founder Debbie Bial created a program to encourage veteran enrollment. Yet of all the COFHE colleges, only Wesleyan University has joined the program so far. Why are so many prestigious schools reluctant to enroll veterans?“Veterans can’t do the work,” an Ivy League president told me a few years ago. (This was not at a press event or in an interview, so I won’t out the individual.) But many other university administrators begged to differ.“Generally devaluing the demonstrated abilities of the men and women who commit to national service is as ugly as the coarsest racism, sexism, etc., that presumably this same leader wouldn't be caught dead expressing. For shame,” said Jon Burdick, the University of Rochester’s dean of admissions and financial aid. “Anybody who wants to say that should be required to provide proof—including proof that guiding enrolling veterans to success on their campus would be a greater burden than the significant efforts they voluntarily make in guiding their underrepresented minority students, varsity athletes, and legacy children of major donors.”“I don’t see any evidence of that,” said Wesleyan President Michael Roth. “The average veteran entering college is in his or her late 20s or early 30s; many have been through a very intense experience serving overseas, and all have incredible training from the military. The workload at a highly selective college or university, while different, may seem easy to them! And unlike the typical 18-year-old first-year college student who comes straight from high school, veterans have had a number of extra years to consider their future and decided that they really want to go to college now.”Swarthmore College had zero veterans enrolled this year, and the reply from President Rebecca Chopp joined the chorus of the usual excuses. The Swarthmore situation troubles me on two counts: First, I don't see how institutions that benefit from so many federal programs and policies, from Pell Grants to research funding with generous overhead to tax-deducted donations and a tax-free endowment, can neglect the young men and women we have all sent to war. Second, working with returning veterans is part of what I do as a Quaker. Incidentally, Quakers founded Swarthmore in 1864.I wrote to Chopp:Williams, where I went, has zero veterans, has no spiritual or moral traditions. Trustees there refuse to discuss or wonder why I am asking. I can't give that pass to Swarthmore. I don't need to list to you, I know, why Swarthmore would seek a higher standard than Williams. The usual obfuscation is that a college would be happy to take veterans but none are applying. We both know that a college would need to recruit this population. And we both know, I think, that selective colleges, especially those as wealthy as Swarthmore, have exactly as many of certain types of students—soccer players, chemists, oboists—as they choose to have.Chopp’s reply:We are geared in our work toward undergraduates in the age range of 18-22 and that fact sometimes makes choosing us less likely for older veterans. In recent years we have been focused on the children of veterans and we have at present seven children of veterans enrolled, which is a part of the support that veterans and their families seek and need. The community colleges and the large state and research universities are better able to enroll large numbers at once.My rebuttal: Preposterous. For more than a decade, the U.S. has been a nation at war. Focusing on 18- to 22-year-olds is a decision by Swarthmore, not the hand of fate. Until the wars are over and the veterans healed, Swarthmore, a Quaker college, could decide to welcome and accommodate 100, even 200, veterans. Would Swarthmore accept a tax on its endowment to support veterans at community colleges? An institution supported by federal aid and tax policies shouldn’t relegate 18- to 22-year-olds to war with no responsibility to support those students on their return.Chopp: “We are only able to enroll smaller numbers given our class size and the commitment to a broad range of access to the liberal arts experience that we exercise.”In the eyes of Swarthmore, then, students of talent who have chosen not to serve their country are equal in diversity to those who have?Chopp: “In our history the largest numbers of veterans we accommodated came after the Second World War, as many who were our students before enlisting in that war returned. Those numbers are less likely in this modern era.”“Less likely”? With 646,302 veterans and dependents using the Post-9/11 GI Bill, Swarthmore made room for just seven dependents and no veterans.Top CommentThis doesn't surprise me for undergrads. If you're the type that will normally get into an Ivy League college, you're probably the officer type, not the type to enlist at 18. More...214 Comments Join InStill, I did find some good news. This year, Stanford’s summer school will include a program for up to 20 veterans to build their academic skills. That’s the result of several years of advocacy by William Treseder, a Marine combat veteran and Stanford graduate via community college. (Treseder says he came upon the summer school idea in one of my columns.)And through the Posse program, Vassar enrolled 11 veterans this fall and will enroll as many each year in the future. Wesleyan, a COFHE school, has also signed on. “We found that it was a real challenge to ‘go it alone’ as a single institution,” said Wesleyan’s Roth. “We were impressed by Posse’s veterans program and felt that joining forces with them was the best way to enroll more veterans every year.”

Q. Will graduating from a lower-prestige university affect my medical school admission? I currently study chemistry at California State University, Northridge.A.Choosing the best premed school to get into medical school (generic article)New medical school in Elk Grove makes history (newspaper) (CNUCOM)Can CSU students get into medical school in California? (SDN discussion thread regarding CSU success with UC admissions)Pre Med 101 - Know What You Need to Get Into Medical SchoolChoosing a Pre Med School It does not matter what pre med school you attend to get your undergraduate training. The only thing that matters is that you are in an environment that YOU can be successful in. You may think it is hard to believe that it doesn’t matter, but once you are in medical school and see the vast diversity of your classmates you will agree that it does not matter if you went to Harvard or a small liberal arts college.[Pros and Cons of Liberal Arts colleges for the premed]The simple recipe to get into medical school:Get great grades in your pre-req classesHave a solid plan for your MCAT prep and get a competitive scoreGive yourself plenty of time for extraordinary volunteeringChoosing the best premed school to get into medical schoolDo not go to a great school. Go to a school that will make YOU great. – Ryan Gray, MDThere is no perfect or wrong choice when it comes to selecting a pre med school. The biggest considerations for most high school seniors are geographic location, proximity to family, size of school, range of degree programs offered, and cost. There are, however, some other important things to think about if you are thinking about becoming applying to medical school someday. Read below to find out 5 criteria for choosing a pre med school.Type of Experience: Happy Hour vs. Study BuddyFirst, before you even think about particular pre med schools, you should know that becoming a physician is a long journey requiring a lot of work, patience, and dedication. That said, if you are thinking of spending your college years as your chance to party every weekend and booze it up, you may want to reconsider your career aspirations. There are undoubtedly some professional schools which may still accept you if you skate by with a decent GPA and entrance exam score despite frequent nights of inebriation. Medical school is not one of these. Medical schools take your college transcript GPA and MCAT scores very seriously, as well as how you spend your time in college. They require several letters of recommendation and expect a certain amount of volunteer work or research while you are in college. This does not mean that you can’t have a certain amount of fun in college – of course you can. But, you have to remember the larger picture and that college is the first step in a long journey toward obtaining your medical degree.Type of School: University vs. Liberal Arts collegeThe next big choice to make when choosing a pre med school is whether you want to attend a large university or a small liberal arts college. Can you get an adequate pre-medical education at both of these types of institutions? Yes, for the most part. Almost all big universities will have the necessary pre-med science courses as they typically will have several science departments. Lots of liberal arts colleges, on the other hand, may have a wealth of courses in literature and the humanities but only a few in the biological and physical sciences. Given that your advisor and dean’s office can play a large role in the application process to medical school, you should ensure that they have the necessary services should a student wish to apply to medical school. Remember, you can major in Chinese or Art History and still go to medical school, but you also need to make sure that you will have a good science background in preparation for your future studies in medical school as well as for your MCAT preparation.Type of Competition: Cut-throat or Laid-backSome universities will have hundreds of premed students and inevitably have a high level of competition among the students. Others will have a more laid-back vibe. Given the importance of your college transcript, make sure that you select a school which will be a good fit for you. If you are someone who thrives in high-level competition with your peers and is not bothered by long hours and putting aside your weekend plans with your friends for some extra time in the library, then a very competitive pre-med program at a top university may be for you. If, on the other hand, you are someone who gets nervous around competition and 100% final exams, you may want to select a school with a more nurturing and laid-back environment.Type of Curriculum: Easy A vs Sweatin' BulletsMedical schools will look at your science GPA, your total GPA, and the level of rigor in your curriculum. If you have a 3.99 total GPA, but if most of your courses were in rock painting, your GPA will not be taken as seriously as someone with a 3.85 GPA with courses in integrative neuroscience and analytical chemistry. Most medical school requirements include many hours of studying very involved science material, so you admissions committees are looking for applicants who have already applied themselves, and succeeded, in difficult science courses in college. All of that being said, even if you going to major in History or German and only do the required pre-med sciences, courses, you need to make sure that the rest of your courses are challenging. Also remember that because med school courses are very challenging, you want to prepare yourself well for the level of rigor that you will face in medical school by challenging yourself in your undergraduate studies. The better the study habits that you form in college, the more prepared you will be for weekend-long studying sessions in medical school. The adjustment will also be easier if you are used to studying a lot before you set foot in medical school.Type of Matriculants: In-State vs OutMed schools and the AAMC keep public statistics of where students come from. It is not always as easy as public vs private medical school. If you have any idea about what medical school you are truly interested in attending, review the data and figure out if you should try to gain in-state residence. You might be able to gain the residence by attending an undergraduate school in that state. Many schools also keep data on the exact undergraduate school that their matriculants come from, although I think this data is less important.New medical school in Elk Grove makes historyCalifornia Northstate University College of Medicine (CNUCOM)California Northstate University is the first for-profit traditional medical school accredited in the U.S.The school, with an initial class of 60 students, hopes to make a dent in the nation’s physician shortageA total of 1,232 new students enrolled in California’s 12 medical school programs last fallMedical students Jonathan Huang, left, Zain Lalani, and Tyler Ellis observe a demonstration on performing an orthopedic exam at California Northstate University College of Medicine in Elk Grove last month. These first-year medical students are attending the first for-profit medical school in the nation. Randall Benton [email protected] KATHY ROBERTSONAmie Cai, 25, took a year off after she graduated from UC Berkeley to work as a laboratory manager and apply to medical school. She didn’t get in. Anywhere.Cai, who grew up in Folsom, decided to get more experience. She “shadowed” Dr. Kenan Si at a walk-in clinic on J Street in Sacramento where she could talk to patients in Chinese.First-year medical student Tyler Ellis takes notes at California Northstate University College of Medicine in Elk Grove last month. . The school was accredited in June 2015. Randall Benton [email protected] a new medical school in Elk Grove opened for business last year, Cai jumped at the opportunity. So did 59 other students in the inaugural class at California Northstate University College of Medicine.The first for-profit traditional medical school accredited in the United States hopes to make a dent in a physician shortage and lack of medical school slots in California and nationwide.The school was accredited in June 2015, took applications over the summer and signed up a full class by its launch in early September.Students who landed a spot still pinch themselves to be sure it’s real.California Northstate’s opening comes at a time when many for-profit colleges are under fire for misleading students about their job prospects and earnings, and saddling them with high student loan debt. In the most recent case, the Federal Trade Commission sued DeVry University last month.Students at California Northstate acknowledge the risk, but say they’re glad they got in.“When I heard about this new school in my hometown of Elk Grove, I thought, ‘What the heck?’ ” said Chris Phillips. “For me, this is a dream come true.”WHEN I HEARD ABOUT THIS NEW SCHOOL IN MY HOMETOWN OF ELK GROVE, I THOUGHT, ‘WHAT THE HECK?’ FOR ME, THIS IS A DREAM COME TRUE.Chris Phillips, a student at California Northstate University College of Medicine in Elk GroveAt 30, Phillips is the oldest in the class. He’s married, has three children and a master’s degree. He taught high school physics and shadowed a doctor at a local pediatrics clinic before applying for medical school in 2016.“It’s an interesting group,” Susan Ely, assistant dean of student affairs, admissions and outreach, said of the student body. “It tells you immediately there are way more qualified medical students than places for them, especially in California.”More than 52,500 students applied to medical school for the 2015-16 school year, but only 20,631 enrolled, according to the American Association of Medical Colleges.A total of 1,232 new students enrolled in the 12 medical school programs in California last fall, AAMC figures show. There were more than 67,000 applications. Students typically apply to two dozen schools or more because the market is so competitive.“That’s a lot of wasted talent,” said Dr. Joseph Silva,California Northstate medical school dean.California is particularly tough because people like to attend school in the state — and practice here afterward.“It’s a risk to go to a brand-new school, but (California Northstate) is an accredited California medical school, ” said Shermilla Pia, a new student from Davis. “It’s close to home. My family is here. So is my boyfriend. I’m part of creating something – and that’s pretty huge.”The class is diverse. More than half the students are Asian. Male students outnumber females by more than two to one. Almost 80 percent of students are California residents. For now, the school is not accepting applications from foreign students.The lopsided gender mix was a surprise. Women usually equal men in enrollment or come in a little higher.“(Selection) was all done in seven weeks, in batches,” Silva said. “In the first rush, men, quite frankly, had a better record. In the second batch, fewer women were invited for interviews.”Beyond that, Silva had no explanation. This is something the school will watch, he said.Students don’t seem to care about numbers. They see themselves as pioneers.“It doesn’t feel like a rigid, set-in-stone program,” Cai said. “We are the school. We can help improve it along the way.”California Northstate is the first traditional for-profit to be accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education. The only other for-profit is a Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine in Parker, Colo. It opened in 2006.The plus of starting a school from scratch with investor funding is the ability to get the program off the ground quickly.Backers raised more than $50 million to fund the school. Now open for business, the school gets more than $3.2 million a year in tuition and fees from a class of 60 students.“Profit, nonprofit makes no difference. The school is what you make of it,” said Gopal Kodumudi, another student in the inaugural class. “The matriculation rate at the pharmacy school is great, so I have no worries.”Debt is a fact of life, students say. The $54,000 annual tab is lower than some private medical schools. In-state tuition and fees at UC Davis, the other medical school in town, are about $43,000 this year.“We’re taking out loans,” said Cai. “Anywhere you go, it’s going to be high.”The school launch was quick, but the program has been in the works for years.It’s part of a university that also includes a school of pharmacy, undergraduate college of health sciences and post-baccalaureate program to help students who want to improve their chances of getting into a medical, pharmacy or other health-related school.The medical and pharmacy schools share a campus on West Taron Drive in Elk Grove. The building used to be an AAA call center. California Northstate bought it in 2011 for $7.1 million.The model at the medical school is an integrated approach that brings basic science and clinical expertise together from the beginning. The traditional approach is two years of basic science and anatomy before two years of clinical study with patients.“We actually start with clinical study and the 120 different ways a patient presents to a physician,” said Dr. Ann Poznanski, associate dean of curriculum.Then students learn the underlying science behind the patient condition and see what it looks like in the anatomy lab.“This gives them something that actually makes sense,” Poznanski said. “Teaching in this more integrated way has more sticking power.”Students also teach each other.The focus recently was on hip, knee and joint pain. Broken into groups of four, students practiced their medical skills on actors posing as patients with a joint problem. Students took turns knocking on the door, asking questions and examining a patient. Those not on the spot scribbled notes, wondered out loud – and occasionally laughed.“It’s really cool how we can really interact with a potential patient and see how we come off as doctors, even though we are still students,” said Zain Lalani, who drew the short straw and had to go first.“This is a safe environment where they can make a mistake and can correct it,” said Dr. Ralitsa Akins, senior associate dean of medical education and accreditation. “We are developing a habit.”In one exam room, professor Hanns Haesslein kept a steady banter going as he watched each student.“We’re not just interested in the bones, for crying out loud,” he said. “What do you feel? Push it in and out.”Physical diagnosis is part of the detective work of being a doctor, said Haesslein, an obstetrician/gynecologist in private practice at the Sacramento Maternal-Fetal Medicine Medical Group. “I’m doing this because I love it. It’s a challenge because every day, there is another thing we need to work on, plan for, assess and change.”Dr. Ravinder Khaira, a local pediatrician who is medical director of four clinics in the area, is another member of the faculty at California Northstate.“It takes advantage of my advanced degree and offers a chance to form the new school,” he said. “The students? They are amazing. They are intelligent, very enthusiastic and happy they’ve been given this opportunity.”There is a looming problem for medical students here and throughout the nation, however. About 1,000 current medical school students won’t match with residency spots when they graduate this year, said Dr. Julie Freischlag, dean of the UC Davis School of Medicine.The federal government pays for most resident training, but capped the number of positions in 1997. There are more graduates, but the only new slots are funded by hospitals or other sources.“It’s good to have an increase in the number of medical schools as the nation tries to solve the problem of not enough doctors,” Freischlag said. “But we do need to find new places for them to train.”AT A GLANCECalifornia Northstate University School of Medicine’s inaugural Class of 2019:Enrollment: 60Total applicants: 686Acceptance rate: 8.8.%Female students: 19 (32%)Male students: 41 (68%)California residents: 47Out of state residents: 13Race/ethnicity: 19 Caucasian; 33 Asian; 3 African American; 3 Hispanic; 2 Pacific IslanderAverage Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) score: 32Average GPA: 3.48Source: California Northstate University School of MedicineRead more here: New medical school in Elk Grove makes historyCan CSU students get into medical school in California?DISCUSSION THREAD REGARDING CSU SUCCESS IN GETTING ADMITTED TO UC MEDICAL SCHOOLS (A BIT DATED, STILL RELEVANT)Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by missbones, May 7, 2010.missbones: Been reading some pretty disheartening comments on hsdn and elsewhere from people on adcoms or current med students in California stating that unless you apply disadvantaged, you wont get into a California med school with a CSU as your undergrad.Can anyone confirm or deny this or provide insight? I plan to speak to a counselor on campus next week. Just wanted as many viewpoints/experiences as possible. Also this thread might be helpful to other CSU students.I am a cc --> CSU transfer. Just decided to go pre-med in my senior year so I potentially have 4 more semesters ahead of me to complete all the chem prereqs. I'd like to know what my chances are and if would be smarter for me just to graduate with my BA and then try to get into an SMP or Post-bacc at a more prestigious institution in order to improve my chances for acceptance in California, instead of continuing on my current plan to just postpone graduation in order to take the required pre med classes.my gpa is around 3.56-59. I have 4 units I failed at the CC level. Am I dead in the water adding this to my CSU status?Chemokine7 I know people who went to a CSU and got into UCLA and USC but they had solid MCAT scores to back up their high gpa. If you have a high gpa at a csu and a low MCAT score, it will not reflect too well. One of my interviewers even said that he believes CSU gpas are way inflated compared to UCs. So make sure you do well in your MCAT and do not leave the adcom room to question it.mspeedwagon Status:Medical Student I know CSU kids in the CA med schools, but all had 30+ MCAT.plsfoldthx Status:Medical Student doesn't everyone in med school have 30+ mcat?Meat Status:Medical Student Check out my MDapplications link to the left. CSU student, good GPA, solid MCAT, some research, volunteering, etc. I was a bit late to the game (started doing health care activities two years before applying). I was murdered at the UC level in CA. Not one interview. Not even secondaries at UCSD or UCSF.I'm sure some will say "obviously something was wrong with your application," which may have been true, but not ONE UC invite with my numbers? I assumed there was some state hate.Good luck man! I would suggest transferring to a UC.EDIT: I do have a URM friend at my school that had a USC and UCLA interview. So its not totally impossible.missbones Status:Pre-Medical Did you apply early?Meat Status: Medical Student Submitted end of June, verified mid / late July, all secondaries in early August. Certainly could have been earlier.silverhorse84 Status:Resident CSU grad. Got into USC and was waitlisted at Irvine (never sent a letter of interest, which they highly suggest, so who knows what would have happened). Had a 3.6 something GPA, and 30 MCAT. No, I'm not URMIgnore what other people say - unless you want to go to a "top" medical school you'll be fine. Get a good GPA and a good MCAT, speak the truth in your essays and interviews, you'll be fine.Meat Status:Medical Student For sure. Do the best you can, you'll totally make it!missbones Status:Pre-Medical Thanks for the advice. I was thinking of doing the USC post bacc. I was all over that recent CSU thread, and I don't think anyone said it was impossible - just that it is much easier coming from Berkeley/UCLA/UCSD.lord_jeebus SDN Moderator Status:Attending Physician That said, with your GPA you will need a strong MCAT and maybe a post-bac.longhorn09 Status:Medical Student Have you tried Loma Linda?missbones Status:Pre-Medical the statements that you made, among what others said, that pretty much made me feel like I had no chance because I lack "near perfect GPA" and "extraordinary accomplishments":"Those very few successful applicants from the Cal State system tended to have extraordinary accomplishments outside of the classroom, near-perfect GPAs, and high MCATs""Can the CSULB student overcome this disadvantage? Of course, but most don't. It's not just a matter of scoring high on the MCAT. You would need to distinguish yourself in ways going above and beyond most pre-meds.""Again, the few CSU students that were accepted, in my adcom experience, were not accepted because they had great numbers (although they had to have that also just to be looked at) but because they had unusual life achievements."I also asked in that thread about people who attend post-baccs at CSUs and how they could have any kind of success rate if little to none of CSU med school applicants make it in, as you were saying. Since you didn't respond on that thread would you mind addressing this here if you have any experience in that area?missbones Status:Pre-Medical Loma Linda? Not interested. I'm very anti-christian.mspeedwagon Status:Medical Student I'm assuming you mean everyone that gets into a CA M.D. program... then the answer is likely yes (with a few exceptions).Of course 30 is close to the 80% percentile, which means only 20% of all test takes score at or above. So no, not "everyone" scores 30+.Side-note in response to another poster: Loma Linda is a terrible place to apply unless you are a 7th day adventist. They send you an automatic secondary (thus get your money) and then reject you (for the most part).lord_jeebus SDN Moderator Status:Attending Physician I was talking about my medical school in particular. Your odds at getting into a medical school somewhere in the US are not as bad, if your numbers improve. I think that if you improve your grades from this point, maintain 3.9+ in postbac and 30+ MCAT, you will be able to attend medical school somewhere in the country. You can't be picky though.U Turn Status:Pre-Health (Field Undecided) A high school friend of mine graduated from San Jose State last year and is currently an M1 at UCLA. She had a 3.9 GPA and a 32 MCAT from what I remember. She's not an URM but apparently adcoms at her interviews were impressed that she's a hardcore mountain climber and has climbed numerous mountains including Mt. Everest and Mt. McKinley.lord_jeebus SDN Moderator Status:Attending Physician Sounds like "extraordinary accomplishments outside of the classroom, near-perfect GPAs, and high MCAT" to me .missbones Status:Pre-Medical I already have ~110 units. So the best I can do is maintain and raise it maybe .1 in 2 years... Postbac seems like the best option for me. I really don't want to leave California.Maneuver Status: Pre-Medical CSU GPA's ARE inflated. You shouldn't have more than one or two B's. Certainly no C's, D's, or F's.MichaelRW Status:Pre-Medical plsfoldthx said: ↑doesn't everyone in med school have 30+ mcat?seriously?lord_jeebus SDN Moderator Status:Attending Physician If I were you, if prereqs are all fulfilled I would apply simultaneously to med schools and post-bacs - just in case you get in somewhere. But you'll probably need the post-bac.Even with the post-bac, your odds of staying in CA are not good. 4 years is not that long and if you work hard you should be able to come back for residency.missbones Status:Pre-Medical I'm not sure I understand this. If my pre-reqs are fulfilled why would I do a post bacc?lord_jeebus SDN Moderator Status:Attending Physician GPA boosting, especially if your GPA in the prereqs is similar to your overall GPAmissbones Status:Pre-Medical lord_jeebus said: ↑GPA boosting, especially if your GPA in the prereqs is similar to your overall GPA I guess you consider my gpa extremely bad because most other people I've talked to said it was fine/competitive. My gpa is a 3.5 ish mostly because of those 4 units I failed. I have only one other c and the rest are As, A- and a few B+'s, I think 5.JokerMD Status:Medical Student yes, its possible.amikhchi Status:Medical Student Calstate northridge grad 3.47 gpa and 36 mcat... Absolutely no love from any california schools... Congrats to those who got in from csu system, but looking back I would have gone to ucla... I'm rather confident if I had went to ucla (got accepted to all UCs for undergrad) I would be in med school right now with my 31 and wouldn't have had to retake mcat...Oh wellmissbones Status:Pre-Medical What are your ECs/volunteering/shadowing etc. Please be honest.amikhchi Status:Medical Student i've gone over this in several threads, and honestly they are avg i'd say, about 200 hrs of shadowing over the course of about 2 years, about 150 hrs of other volunteer community service, about 120 hrs of research (through my school), and an undocumented amount of hours that would probably fall under ECs, but not community service or clinical experience.missbones Status:Pre-Medical i know my gpa is on the low end, doesn't need to be stated, but my mcat is also on the higher end... anyone i talk to says it's "weird" that i get no interviews from CA schools, or that "something must be wrong with your application"... i think it's the CSU...sounds like it. I think id rather just stop taking pre-reqs, graduate, get into a uc post bacc and see how it goes from there. Its just scary because you can only get loans for those programs and most dont want you to work so what do you do after 2 years of debt if you dont get in? Get to work in the real world, I guess.Meat Status:Medical Student i think it's the CSU...Maybe there are just too many UC applicants applying for us CSU kids to be competitive. Why even interview CSU students when UC students are lining up with similar scores (albeit possibly slightly lesser scores in some cases). Maybe from the prospective of an adcom, with so many people to pick from the UC system, why even interview a CSU kid unless he / she has some REALLY unique features.All speculation of course. I certainly wish I would have had some UC interviews. Don't let this discourage you OP, there are plenty of other med schools out thereteenmachinery1 Status:Medical Student 200 hours of shadowing is NOT anywhere remotely near the average.amikhchi Status:Medical Student what's the average? ~4 hours a week for about 2 years with the exception of breaks and special circumstances.lord_jeebus SDN Moderator Status:Attending Physician Shadowing hours is never the issue. People don't get accepted because they shadowed a lot.JJMrK Status:Resident It's possible but you put yourself at a disadvantage.lovemesomeTJ Status:Non-Student UC post-bacs are for URM students who consider themselves disadvantaged and can back this claim up in their essays. I think the only one that might not require this is UC Berkeley, and it is not apart of the UC Post-Bac Consortium (or whatever it's called) that provides you with the extra help of getting in (I believe). If you meet this criteria, then all is well. But if not, you're going to need to figure out another alternative.I really don't see what the big deal is about California. Born and raised, all of my family and majority of my friends are here, and I could give a rat's *** about staying here for the rest of my life. Not to knock you and your motivations, but my goal is MEDICAL SCHOOL, not medical school in California. If you do exceptionally well at a school anywhere else in the country, you won't have trouble coming back here. To me, 4 years is a breath of fresh air from California and a chance to see another part of the country and how it lives. But again, we all have our motivations and reasons for our desires so I wish you luck in remaining in California.missbones Status:Pre-Medical USC takes non URM students. But other than that I was also looking into Mills, which has a high success rate of placing post-bacc students at UCs.casillas Status:Pre-Medical I can't say whether there is a bias, but it is not impossible. I met a few CSU students during UCSF second look weekend. so it definitely happens.Appless It happens, but as a whole CSU are going to be less competitive then UC students. They are seen as inferior schools like it or not and probably 95% of people who want to be pre meds end up at a UC somewhere. Furthermore, the opportunities at a CSU are going to be less which regardless of whether or not the CSU name matters, will hurt your app. Research is obviously a huge part in getting into UC schools as well as USC and other top schools and at CSUs, research just isnt going to happen at near the same level as a UC if it happens at all since not even all CSUs can grant phds for science. UCs have the monopoly on research in cali. Unfortunately, you should have transferred to a UC. Your chances arent over but you need to have other areas such as a great mcat to help you out. CSU gpas are indeed insanely inflated. If you dont just straight dominate the mcat, I would look into a SMP type post bacmissbones Status:Pre-Medical Follow up question: I have one more year of undergrad left, minimum because its too late to apply for fall graduation.I have taken bio 1 (this semester), and stats several years ago. I was planning on taking chem 1a fall, chem 1b spring. Should I stop pre-reqs completely, just finish up my major (only need 2 courses) and maybe add a minor to maintain FT status? Then apply for post bac/SMP for summer or fall 2011? I wonder if it will hurt my chances to spend another yr with no pre-reqs or if its a bad idea to keep taking them at a CSU if I intend to go to a post-bac anyway?Musclemass Getting admission to the CSU system is the opposite of competitive, it's almost open. There are no doubt many capable students at CSUs for reasons of economics, circumstances, etc., but med schools know the score and probably anything much less than a 4.0 and a strong MCAT is going to be a problem.Elijah05 said: ↑probably 95% of people who want to be pre meds end up at a UC somewhere.Not true, many go to private schools or go out of state. Funding and diversity problems at many UC campuses make them a less attractive choice to many.ILikeDrugs Status:Pre-Health (Field Undecided) I graduated from a CSU with a bachelors in psychology. If my applications weren't free I wouldn't even bother applying, but since it will be free I will apply just for the hell of it, even though I know I won't be going to school here in CA. I could probably also put down that I am a mex-american urm without lying since my family came from mexico and I am a first generation US born, but I don't consider myself an urm because I don't consider myself mex-american, nor do I look it, act it, or feel like it. I will check off "other" and put down "human".So why bother applying? Out of spite and to waste their time, of course.Sometimes this process/field/people in this field make me feel like I'm on Gossip Girl. I think someone on here actually said that being in med school is kind of like going back to high school in a Gossip Girl like setting.missbones Status:Pre-Medical I get the feeling. My high school record gave me the capability to attend any school in California I wanted, including Berkeley, UCs etc. I chose community college in the local area to figure out wtf I wanted to do before spending thousands of dollars. Plus my parents wouldn't drop a dime, but their income made it impossible for me to obtain financial aid. Basically Wah wah wah.I'm wondering if I can even get into a reputable post bacc like scripps or mills or usc tho... still being a csu student and all

There was exactly one that appeared to show an association. It was later found to be a fraud, with fudged data, cherry picked patients, and not one but two undisclosed financial interests. He took money from lawyers to get those results, and was also trying to make his own vaccine patent look good in comparison.It still caused concern though, which is why since then, millions of research dollars have been spent (wasted) trying to replicate the results. They haven’t. At this point millions of children have been tracked including every child born in the country of Denmark over a 10 (Edit: actually 28) year period. There’s no correlation, no association, no cause. Below is a sampling of the studies that have found that vaccines don’t cause autism.In fact, we now know not only that it doesn’t, but also that it can’t. We can now detect autism before the first set of vaccinations.Edit: Wait there was another study that claimed to find evidence of a link between vaccines and autism in African American boys. They used the “covered up” yet totally publicly available CDC data.[FACT CHECK: Fraud at the CDC Uncovered?]And here’s the article….whoops…The retraction statement:The Editor and Publisher regretfully retract the article [1] as there were undeclared competing interests on the part of the author which compromised the peer review process. Furthermore, post-publication peer review raised concerns about the validity of the methods and statistical analysis, therefore the Editors no longer have confidence in the soundness of the findings. We apologise to all affected parties for the inconvenience caused.So once again, someone was fudging statitistics for money.Now to the studies that showed NO LINK. 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