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They just don’t want to admit that the beloved founder of their Church was a randy ol’ skirt chaser his whole life.I’ve had this debate already a dozen times here on Quora and I’ve seen the Quormons jump through implausible hoops of their own construction to claim that:“Most” of his wives were “old ladies” with whom he was sealed for purely theological reasons. (They weren’t)I’ve seen them defend the marriages with the teenagers with the argument that it wasn’t so skeevy back them. It would be less skeevy IF the marriages were real and IF Joseph and the brides weren’t already married to other people. But these were secret ceremonies to a known married man, often with the girls other husband in attendance. And in three cases, he married pairs of sisters. Dude, that’s skeevy. Plus the journals and memoirs of all the young women who were approached to become his brides articulate how skeevy they thought the proposition was. They universally reacted with horror when first propositioned, something they would not have done if the proposition carried with it the stipulation that there would be no sex involved. The horror that they felt is proof positive that sex was on the table in the proposition.I’ve seen them argue that polygamy wasn’t technically illegal back then. (Bigamy, of which polygamy is a part, was illegal in Illinois in the 1840’s.)I’ve even seen them argue that Joseph’s dalliances that came BEFORE the revelation regarding sealing powers on earth & heaven were actually “marriages”. (How do you have a celestial “marriage” with your teen maid before the temple ceremonies were created and even before God has given you the sealing powers?)But the most common denial is that Smith never had children with any of them, so he must not have fucked them.This denial still comes up IN SPITE of the admissions of many of his wives in the 1860’s that they fucked and in spite of the fact that Joseph’s successors, who were supposedly following their prophet, clearly fucked, and in spite of the fact that the Utah LDS Church to which these head-in-sand apologists belong accepts the fact that Joseph fucked ‘em. Still they are driven to deny.In the 1860’s the Utah Church was locked in a sibling argument with the Re-Organites (and Joseph’s sons) about their daddy’s practice of polygamy. The Re-Organites claimed Smith never did it, that it was all an invention of Brigham Young, who had been a missionary to the Cochranites, a Maine/Massachusetts cult practicing spiritual wifery. In order to counter these Re-Org denials, Young rounded up the old Smith polyg wives still alive in Utah (such as the E.R. Snow and the Huntington sisters) and had them write affidavits testifying to the details of their marriages to Smith. In the words of Zina Huntington, they were “husband and wife in every sense of the words”. So the LDS apologists who argue “no sex” are actually making an argument contrary to the position their own Church put forward 150 years ago.Further rebutting the “no children” argument is the fact that from the 1843 revelation of polygamy to his death Joseph had exactly ZERO children with his own wife Emma. He had one stillborn son in February of 1842 and one son David born posthumously. If the lack of children is somehow proof of no fucking, then I guess I’m off the hook for sin with 13 of 14 women I slept with, because I only had children with my wife. Thanks Joseph!Curiously, the period of intense polygamous activity by Smith started in the fall of 1841 — two years before the official “revelation” on polygamy and the creation of the temple ceremonies and while Emma would have been pregnant with their stillborn son and out of action. It may very well be that Joseph went “shopping at the corner store” because his own kitchen was closed for business for much of 1841–43.In short, they fucked. By their own admission, they fucked. Maybe not all of them fucked, but enough of them fucked so as to make a difference. Sorry Joe, you don’t get any discount for fucking the teenagers just because you also may happen to have married their 50 year old mom and didn’t fuck her. It doesn’t work that way. Hitler doesn’t get blamed because he didn’t kill all the Jews.Why were no live offspring produced? Well, it could be as simple as they didn’t have prolonged periods of repeat intimacy in the 2 and 1/2 years remaining in Joseph’s life, not enough to result in many pregnancies. If you look at the Wikipedia chronology, Joseph was often on to the next wife before the sheets had been washed from the previous honeymoon.In contrast, Brigham Young was openly married to his polygamous wives for decades. He didn’t have to arrange brief covert rendezvous so that his “Emma” didn’t find out. He could just knock on their door of the wife of his choosing and go at it as much as he wanted.

Enemies of the Smith family seemed to go to incredible lengths to create a myth of “salacious” rumors about them, especially after Joseph had the First Vision. Joseph Smith’s brother, William, stated in the early days, “We never knew we were bad folks until Joseph told his vision. We were considered respectable till then but at once people began to circulate falsehoods and stories in wonderful ways.” One such opponent, personally collected any falsehoods he could and made a legal affidavit briefs out of them.The BEST references to eye-witness observations about the Smith family, comes from researcher/prolific writer, Richard Lloyd Dewey, author of “Hubener vs Hitler”. The book is “Joseph Smith and the Latter-day Saints” - Volume One. The book has copious eye-witness accounts from everybody that ever lived near the Smiths. Dewey just finished up a movie on Porter Rockwell’s life and huge volumes of books on the subject. The book answers each instance in question very honestly with hundreds of sources and sources even deal with the early Christian Church, researching back to the year 0 A.D.… wow! (It’s interesting that members of the ‘L.D.S.’ faith have to deal with these internet and written rumors, when they themselves, have little interest in printing negative things about member of other faiths, especially many of the Evangelicals who seem to relish this activity. It would be as absurd as confronting a modern-day Catholic with events from the Inquisition. We care not to bother our Catholic friends with such tripe, which has nothing to do with modern Catholics or how they believe, today and the same analogy can be used for members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Here are some eye-witness reports of the Smiths:Thomas H. Taylor, a Palmyra attorney: :…There was something about him (Joseph) they couldn’t understand; some way he knew more than they did and it made them mad.. the Smiths were ahead of the people, as in every case, turned out to abuse them because the Smiths had the manhood to stand up for their convictions.” Taylor added, “The Smiths did not do anything (wrong)… you will find that (their accusers ) don’t know anything against these men…they could never sustain anything against (Joseph)….they loved a lie better than the truth… I knew them (the Smiths) very well; they were very nice men, too.” p 41 - interview June 1, 1881The Smith family seemed to always be working zealously to live down poverty. Joseph Sr. was a partner in a merchandise store in Randolph, Vermont. Joseph had secured as much ginseng as he could and crystallized it but he made made the biggest mistake of his life, when he turned down an offer of $ 3,000. (67%) of the total value of his cache and decided to take it to New York and ship it to China on consignment - trusting others to deliver the product and sell it. But he trusted Mr. Stevens, a Royalton merchant who had made the first offer, to do it. Steven’s son returned with only a small chest of tea, claiming that the market was bad. Joseph Sr. later found out that Stevens had made a fortune off of him. pp. 2–3Joseph Sr. now owed a Boston distributor $ 1,800 but because news of what had happened, his customers at the store that owed him $ 2,000. refused to pay for the goods they had bought on credit. Smith sold his farm to pay part of what he owed and put up his wife, Lucy’s, wedding cash present. They could not longer “own a farm” but were now lower-class citizens doing work for others as “tenant farmers”. Many times throughout their life, as they moved, when during those New England years without a summer, a creditor would show up to their house, who in fact, had already been paid but Lucy paid (in one instance) another $150. because her driver couldn’t wait who was moving her goods to another farm and she couldn’t afford any money to pay him to wait, while she found proof that she had paid the creditors. In another instance, she paid debts with clothing and bedding. One such driver, a Mr. Howard, had thrown ten-year-old Joseph Jr. out of the coach, making him walk with a lame leg and crutches, the forty-miles to their new farm. Howard had threatened Joseph’s brothers who dared to object, with the butt of his horse-whip. Rumors about this family, seemed to embolden these drivers. When Mr. Howard arrived at Utica, New York, he threw the Smith family good out of the wagon and attempted to run away with the Smith’s horse and wagon but Lucy Smith called out for witnesses and grabbed the horse reigns. Until the Smiths moved to Nauvoo, they would be indigent but then Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph’s mother, lived in some beautiful homes there. Her book, “History of Joseph Smith by his Mother” the unabridged, original version by R. Vernon Ingleton, is highly recommended.On the next leg of the trip to Palmyra, New York another driver, Mr. Gates, knocked down Joseph Jr., who was left beaten and bloody, until a stranger came along and carried him to the town of Palmyra. pp 1 - 15As for the particularly cruel rumors that Lucy Smith and Joseph’s sisters suffered from depression, it was no more than any of their neighbors. One must know that like all Americans of the 1800’s, the Smiths were no strangers to death. Lucy lost two sisters to tuberculosis, then, she and Joseph Sr. had a stillborn child in 1797. Alvin was their first child to survive infancy. Miraculously, after much prayer and beseeching, Joseph’s sister, Sophronia, who had contracted a plague that was going around the neighborhood taking children’s lives, was restored to life after appearing limp and lifeless. Another cruel rumor happened when Joseph’s brother, Alvin died. He was the family’s beloved and strong one. He had kept a man from an Irishman from gouging out another man’s eyes in a professional fight by jumping in the ring. When Alvin died, the family was devastated for a long time but their belief in heaven, sustained them. pps. 53–54Joseph Jr. was a diviner, (one talented at the commonplace, early Americana activity of divining to find silver, ore or water), Joseph was hired in October of 1825 by a Josiah Stowell to find a lost silver mine in the Susquehanna Valley. Joseph at first, refused the offer, then acquiesced when offer higher wages - $14.00 a month. Joseph Jr., Joseph Sr., Hyrum Smith, George Proper, Samuel Lawrence, Josiah Stowell and Alvin Beamann all went on the digging expedition. (An earlier expedition had failed with another group). After two weeks, Joseph talked Josiah Stowell into stopping, (having had an angel privately, warn him to.) Josiah Stowell even before his conversion, consistently viewed Joseph with respect - until his dying day unlike rumors to the reverse, which were used to discredit Joseph after he translated the Book of Mormon. pp 67–68Peter Bridgeman, a member of Josiah Stowell’s family, claimed Joseph to be an imposter and on March 20, 1826 took him to court. Joseph, who had decided against divining again, testified against himself in explaining the procedure. All charges were dismissed but a rarely enforced law about “glass-looking”. Joseph was simply released with no fine but paid $2.68 for the Judge’s time. The judge could see that Joseph had already abandoned this type of employment. One writer wrote quite a fiction about the event: “The public had him arrested as a disorderly person, tried and condemned before a court of justice….” Actually, Joseph was honorably discharged”. The writer was an A.W. Benton. pp 76–77Note to reader* “Whenever one sees a charge from Bainbridge, New York against Joseph Smith for being “a disorderly person or an imposter” (*above, the printed lies are historically disputed).A Mrs. Palmer of Palmyra had a bittersweet view of Joseph Jr.: “There was never a truer, purer, nobler boy than Joseph Smith before (what she deemed) superstition led him astray” After Joseph had his second vision, The Palmers and all their churchgoing friends cut off affiliation with the Smiths. Their minister had said that “boy carried danger ….and must be put down.” p. 61Mercy R. Thompson: “Joseph was always cheerful and always had a smile for his friends”,First Governor of California, Peter Burnett. He differed vastly in his beliefs from Joseph Jr., since he was deemed a racist but, If anyone would say anything negative about the prophet, Peter would have. He still had this opinion of Joseph Smith Jr.: “He would not oppose you abruptly, but had due deference to your feelings”. (1849 - 1851) pp. - p. 41The Smith family worked hard and were a close knit family. Lucy painted tablecloths for a little extra money and her boys would request of her, “Mother, have supper early, so we can have a long evening to listen to Joseph”. Apparently, Joseph would regale the family with descriptions of an an ancient civilization and their dress, mode of travel, animals, warfare and life with as much ease, as if he had lived among them. Reading books like Dewey’s with actual historical sources and research can truthfully answer your question.

[Warning; this answer may disturb people who have lost children.]“These laws made my wife feel our child struggle inside her for days” [ . . . ] “We cried ourselves to sleep every night. We spent four days in and out of the hospital waiting for nature to take its course.” Texas woman forced to deliver stillborn baby due to abortion banThis is what banning abortion does.“In an affidavit filed Thursday in court, Erick Munoz said little to him was recognizable about his wife. Her bones crack when her stiff limbs move. Her usual scent has been replaced by the ‘smell of death.’” Texas judge: Remove brain-dead woman from ventilatorThese are the kinds of things that happen in an anti-abortion society.“A fetus that was discovered Friday afternoon at an East Dallas high school was the result of a miscarriage, a spokesperson for the Dallas Police Department said Tuesday. [. . . ] Police have ‘spoken to all involved,’ and the incident isn’t considered a criminal case, the spokesperson said.” Fetus Found In Dallas High School Bathroom, Chaos EnsuesThis is the kind of insanity that the overzealous hatred of abortion causes.Things like women being forced to have children slowly die inside of them, being used as incubators long after death has occurred, being treated like a criminal after miscarrying alone in a bathroom.If you care so much about children, volunteer for an orphanage. Foster some kids. Donate food to needy families. Don't spend time trolling on Quora.Not only is it useless, it's cruel.I lost twins in utero and had to get a therapeutic abortion. Every time I see a question like this, it comes rushing back to me. I remember the doctor telling me that I needed to get surgery. Calling to beg my mom to come be with me before my D&C. Begging the surgeon to please just check again and make sure that there was nothing else that could be done. Getting wheeled back. Crying as they put me under. Waking up and feeling empty and sad and overwhelmed. Now every protest I see in front of a clinic, every cruel and ignorant ‘question’ you people ask, I think about it again. I think about women suffering. I think about women dying. I think about women losing their babies alone.Just stop. Please. For the sanity of women who have lost children. Stop.