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How many South Vietnamese civilians died as a result of the Vietnam War?

Q. How many South Vietnamese civilians died as a result of the Vietnam War?A. Estimates vary widely. Reasonable estimate of South Vietnamese casualty from Senate Subcommittee is 415,000.Vietnam: A War on CiviliansHow many Vietnamese died during the Vietnam War? (reference.com)In figures released in 1995, Vietnam claimed 2 million civilians died on both sides, while 1.1 million North Vietnamese soldiers and between 200,000 and 250,000 South Vietnamese soldiers lost their lives in the war.Roughly 58,200 American soldiers died during the United States' involvement in the conflict. Other countries suffered heavy casualties in the Vietnam War as well. New Zealand lost about three dozen soldiers, Australia lost more than 500 soldiers and South Korea lost 3,000 troops in the war.Vietnam War | Facts, Summary, Casualties, & CombatantsVietnam War casualties - WikipediaEstimates of casualties of the Vietnam War vary widely. Estimates include both civilian and military deaths in North and South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.The Vietnam War (a.k.a. the Second Indochina War, the American War or 'Nam) began in 1955 and ended in 1975 when North Vietnamese forces captured Saigon. During this period, the war escalated from an insurgency in South Vietnam assisted by the North Vietnamese government to direct military intervention in the south by North Vietnam to assist the insurgents and the intervention of military forces of the United States and other countries to assist South Vietnam. The war also spilled over into the neighboring countries of Cambodia and Laos. An exhaustive reckoning of the total casualties must include statistical information available for each theater of the war. Most of the fighting took place in South Vietnam; accordingly it suffered the most casualties.Civilian deaths caused by both sides amounted to a significant percentage of total deaths, perhaps from 30 to nearly 50 percent. Civilian deaths caused by communist forces, which included the Viet Cong, North Vietnamese Army, Pathet Lao and Khmer Rouge, mostly resulted from assassinations and terror tactics. Civilian deaths caused by the armed forces of the governments of South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, the United States, South Korea, and other allies were primarily the consequence of extensive aerial bombing and the use of massive firepower in military operations conducted in heavily populated areas. The nature of the war often made it difficult to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants.A number of incidents occurred during the war in which civilians were deliberately targeted or killed. The best-known are the Massacre at Huế and the My Lai massacre.Vietnam: The Vietnam WarPosted on August 7, 2015 by World Peace FoundationIntroduction | Atrocities | Fatalities | Ending | Coding | Works Cited | NotesIntroductionThe Vietnam War began in 1959-60, as an insurgency of Communist forces in South Vietnam, the Vietcong, against the government of South Vietnam. Although the United States supported the leadership of the South, advising President Ngo Dinh Diem as well as supplying military and financial aid, the scope of American involvement was relatively limited at this point. As the Southern government teetered towards on the verge of collapse, the U.S. intervened on its behalf, increasing its support over time, with massive commitment starting in 1965.U.S. support changed fundamentally following the Gulf of Tonkin Incident (July 1964), where US military sources claimed they had been fired on by North Vietnamese torpedoes—claims later contradicted when previously classified materials were leaked to the public. Prior to the Gulf of Tonkin, most civilian deaths were the result of attempts by governments in the North and South to consolidate power in a newly divided Vietnam.In response to the alleged events in the Gulf of Tonkin, Congress gave a blank check to Pres. Johnson, allowing the administration to go on the offensive and “bring the war north.”The war involved regular armed forces of South Vietnam and the U.S. against the North Vietnamese Army and the Vietcong. American escalation included increasing the number of troops, mounting significant offensives and deploying large-scale aerial bombardment including use of napalm over both North and South Vietnam.This military activity led to an increased number of civilian deaths. Violence escalated between 1965 and 1975, peaked in 1968 and then decreased until 1973 when a cease-fire was signed between Hanoi and the United States. Civil war continued until 1975, when North Vietnam defeated the South, taking the capital Saigon in April 1975.AtrocitiesThe war had few regular battles and no fixed front lines, but rather occurred in hundreds of small, geographically defuse actions designed to assert control of villages and their populations. Stathis Kalyvas and Matthew Kocher argue that violence against civilians during the conflict was both selective (that is, targeted at the individual level) and indiscriminate (a result of widespread bombing or other attacks). They note that the Vietcong had established strong intelligence networks in the South and tended to target individuals, with the goal of “eliminating opponents and intimidating neutrals.” They further note that “while selective, Vietcong violence was also massive,” drawing on Lowy’s numbers to estimate that the Vietcong assassinated 36,725 persons.The US and South Vietnamese bombing sorties, they note, tended to occur in Vietcong strongholds. On the ground, U.S. General Westmoreland pursued a war that sought to inflict as many casualties as possible on the DRV and Vietcong forces. As part of this strategy, American and ARVN forces carried out search and destroy missions in an effort to clear villages of guerilla fighters. As the name indicates, this was highly destructive policy with the sole goal to “find, fix, fight and destroy” enemy forces. While effective at clearing villages, the success was only temporary. Once American forces moved out, communist forces could easily reclaim the previously cleared village. Because these tactics seemed to be yielding high enemy deaths, Washington continued to support the war of attrition and statistics of enemy dead were accepted and reported to the public without much question.In addition to a dramatic increase in U.S. personnel and ground troops illustrated above, the United States began launching offensive air raids on North Vietnam. The first of these air campaigns, Rolling Thunder, was waged between March 2, 1965 and October 31, 1968. The primary objectives of Rolling Thunder were to end the infiltration of men and supplies into South Vietnam and force Hanoi to peace negotiations. Military, industrial, and civilian targets were hit as Rolling Thunder moved further north. In an effort to maximize the destruction of the air war, American officials also lifted the restrictions on the type of weapons used in the air war. Beginning in the fall of 1965, the U.S. used napalm, white phosphorus and cluster bombs. Even with this unquestionable technological superiority, the United States was not making the progress it had been promising the public.The disconnect between the reported success and actual progress of the war of attrition became painfully clear to the American public in January 1968 when communist forces launched a coordinated, national attack: the Tet Offensive. Since 1964 Americans had been promised a swift victory in Vietnam and the statistics from Westmoreland’s war of attrition had largely supported that premise. Yet, the Tet Offensive, despite resulting in heavy Vietcong casualties, illustrated that the Vietcong remained strong and able to coordinate a sophisticated, national attack. In many ways the Tet Offensive signaled a turning point in America’s war in Vietnam, as 1968 and 1969 were the peak years of American in activity in Vietnam. In this two-year period, the U.S. had the largest number of troops on the ground. Furthermore, the data on civilian causalities illustrate that 1968 experienced the highest casualty rates.Richard Nixon was elected in the fall 1968, in large part due to his promises of peace and the withdrawal of American forces from Vietnam. Efforts to meet this objective began in 1969 with the introduction of Vietnamization, in which ARVN forces would gradually take over ground military operations as American forces left the country. While the Nixon administration successfully began decreasing the number of troops, this should not be understood as a de-escalation of the war effort. Nixon and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger insisted that the war needed to be expanded before it could end and increased bombing of neighboring Cambodia and Laos. Under this “madmen” policy, Nixon wanted to send 150,000 American ground forces into Cambodia, however, an increasingly hostile American public resulted in increased Congressional restrictions on troops involvement.Nixon’s Vietnamization was demonstrated to be a failure in March 30, 1972 after a NLF tanks crossed the DMZ and easily swept by ARVN forces. In the face of the inability of ARVN to successfully deter NLF forces, coupled with increasing restrictions on American troop activity, the Nixon administration increased bombing of North Vietnam. Three different bombing campaigns followed in an effort to cripple the North’s effort and force them to the negotiating table. The first, Freedom Trail (April 1972), targeted civilian vulnerabilities and did little to coerce Hanoi. However, the next two campaigns were more successful. Linebacker I (5/1072) and Linebacker II (10/18/72-10/29/72) largely concentrated on Hanoi’s military capabilities and were important in reinvigorating peace talks between Hanoi and Washington. Support for the conflict withered in the US as even positive momentum did not seem to create conditions for victory. A 1972 report by the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee noted, the war was not only “far from won, but far from over.”Fatalities: 1965-1975The number of civilian deaths in the peak years of American involvement continues to be a highly contentious and politicized topic. To complicate matters further, reliable data is extremely difficult to find and scholars have often had to employ rather creative methods in order to calculate civilian deaths. It is therefore useful to outline some of the more important studies, before analyzing and coding the dynamics of violence in this period.Charles Hirschman, Samuel Preston, and Vu Manh Loi’s “Vietnamese Casualties During the American War: A New Estimate.”“Absolute estimate” 1,050,000 war-related deaths, from 1965-1975791,000 to 1,141,000 estimated war deaths between 1965-1975Midpoint of 966,000 +/- 175,000Hischman, Preston, and Loi’s impressive study represents one of the most creative and recent quantitative studies of Vietnamese deaths between 1965 and 1975. In a self-proclaimed “modern demography” the authors analyze the 1991 Vietnam Life History Survey (VLHS) to determine war-related mortality during the peak of violence. The VLHS was a small sample survey conducted in four representative locations in Vietnam that included questions regarding the survival status of parents and siblings, as well as the birthdates, year of death, and cause of death of parents and sibling. After evaluating the quality of the VLHS, Hirschman et al use the data to assess the American War’s impact on Vietnamese mortality.“Estimates of Vietnamese war-related deaths, ages 15 and older, by age and sex, 1965-75”Age & SexAll Deaths(1)On the basis of the VLHS data, Hirschman and his team estimate that 655,000 men, 143,000 females, and 84,000 children were killed as a result of the American War for a total of 882,000 war deaths. However, as the authors point out, this estimate is potentially low because the VLHS weighed urban and rural death rates equally. Vietnam’s population was 80 percent rural and 20 percent urban and when the data is adjusted for this, the number of war-deaths increases by 19 percent to give a total of 1,050,000. Using the range created by the differing weighing schemes, the authors add the standard deviation of 91,000, to give the final range of 791,000 to 1,141,000.For the purposes of this report, Hirschman’s study is useful because it provides a thorough demographic analysis of potential war deaths in the American War. Unlike many other studies of this period, Hirschman and his team are not concerned with the political motivations or impacts of American involvement in Vietnam. Instead, they offer a plausible estimate of the human cost of the war based on new sources and careful demography.Unfortunately, their estimate does not differentiate civilian from military deaths, nor make any indication of how the death occurred (as a result of ARVN, US, or DRV action). However, it does offer a useful starting point for assessing Vietnamese loses in the peak years of their long war for independence.Guenter Lewy’s America in Vietnam (New York: Oxford University Press, 1978).250,000 South Vietnamese civilian killed as a result of military operations39,000 civilians “assassinated” by communist forces65,000 North Vietnamese civilians killed by American bombingLewy’s book represents one of the earliest scholarly efforts to account for the number of Vietnamese killed during American military action in Vietnam. Published in 1978, Lewy’s estimates are largely based on figures provided by the U.S. Department Defense and have been increasingly questioned as new data comes to light. For instance, the figure of 65,000 North Vietnamese civilians killed by American bombings between 1965 and 1975 is based on the U.S. National Security Council estimate that 52,000 North Vietnamese civilians were killed as a result of American airstrikes form 1965-1969. Although American airstrikes continued, especially in the South, after 1969 they tended to occur further away from population centers and hit regions in Cambodia and Laos with greater frequency, making it extremely difficult if not impossible to determine an accurate number of Vietnamese killed as a result. Because many of the figures Lewy provides are extrapolations based on estimates from American officials and government councils, one must keep in mind that he was working with incomplete data.That being said, Lewy’s estimate of 1.2 million total Vietnamese losses in this period is not drastically different from the figures later advanced by Hirschman, Preston, and Loi. Furthermore, unlike many scholars Lewy attempts to differentiate the type of civilian death based on region and potential perpetrator, which is helpful as we seek to analyze the political and military climate that surrounded peak years of violence.Thomas C. Thayer, War Without Fronts: The American Experience in Vietnam (Boulder: Westview Press, 1985).Thayer’s account takes yet another approach to evaluating civilian causalities in the American War by analyzing hospital admission data compiled from participating South Vietnamese and American military hospitals. He largely combines this somewhat simple reconstruction of data with estimates of the U.S. Senate Subcommittee on Refugees and Escapes findings, offering a more robust estimate of civilian casualties during American involvement in Vietnam. Thayer’s account is particularly useful for the purposes of this study, because he attempts to provide a yearly breakdown of civilian casualties.Recognizing the obvious shortcomings of this dataset, Thayer concludes that there were over one million civilian casualties in the South alone by the end of American involvement. In this case, a casualty is used to denote any war-related injuries and Thayer places a more conservative estimate of approximately 200,000 civilian deaths in South Vietnam during this period.“Civilian War Causalities” *from Senate findingsAs Thayer is clear to point out, the above figures do not include civilian casualties in the North, those never admitted to hospitals, or those admitted to institutions run by private charities or religious organizations.In an effort to move beyond the raw hospital data Thayer explores different government accounts and investigations that attempt to include unreported civilian casualties. While there are several different methods used to yield a more complete estimate, Thayer maintains that the most plausible estimates range from 1,225,000 to 1,350,000 civilian casualties.Thayer presents two different estimates on civilian deaths, one based USAID’s Public Health Division reports and supported by military casualty data, and the other advanced by the U.S. Senate Subcommittee. The first estimate contends that hospital admissions data only accounts for half of all wounded Vietnamese civilians and uses a process of complicated and seemingly random calculations to yield a total of 195,000 South Vietnamese civilians deaths. The Senate Subcommittee, on the other hand, estimates a much higher civilian death count of 415,000. Unfortunately, Thayer does not provide a discussion of how the committee reached that figure, and it is difficult to independently verify the calculated figures.The last important addition that Thayer’s research makes is his effort to differentiate the perpetrators of violence in this period. Once again taking a more narrow window of time, Thayer analyzes they types of injuries reported in hospital admission from 1967 to 1970.In his report Thayer makes the admittedly crude argument that injures from mines and mortars were largely inflicted by the communists, those from guns and grenades could be from other sides, while bombing and artillery related injuries and death were the result of the “allies” (US, ARVN, third nation forces). Although recognizing that Americans were responsible for a large portion of civilian deaths, Thayer is adamant the ratio of American responsibility is not as high as many expect and in fact decreased as the war winds down. This trend makes sense, as the United States began withdrawing troops in 1971 and increasingly bombed areas further away from population centers and as discussed above.EndingsAs the war dragged on, several factors crystallized American opposition to the war: the massacre at My Lai (1969) where up to 500 civilians were killed by US forces; expansion of the war to Cambodia (1970); and leak of the Pentagon papers (1971) revealing considerable discrepancies between government actions and public statements. As a result of increasing American public pressure on the U.S. and military pressure on the North, the parties to the conflict began negotiations that resulted in the Paris Peace Accords in January 1973, which governed U.S. withdrawal. Fighting continued between Vietnamese forces, with North Vietnamese forces gaining ground. They took the capitol, Saigon, on April 30, 1975, marking the definitive end to the war and the period of mass atrocities.CodingWe coded this case as ending when domestic insurgents and North Vietnam defeated South Vietnamese and U.S. forces, hence we also code for a withdrawal of international forces. To account for the targeting of civilians on all sides, we code for multiple victim groups.Works CitedGibson, James William. 1986. The Perfect War: Technowar in Vietnam. Boston: The Atlantic Monthly Press.Hirschman, Charles, and Samuel Preston, and Vu Manh Loi. 1995. “Vietnamese Casualties During the American War: A new Estimate.” Population and Development Review, Vol. 21, No. 4 (Dec): 783-812.Kalyvas, Stathis N. and Matthew Adam Kocher. 2009. “The Dynamics of Violence in Vietnam: An Analysis of the Hamlet Evalusation System (HES)” Journal of Peace Research 46:3, 335 – 355.Kolko, Gabriel. 1985. Anatomy of a War: Vietnam, the United States and the Modern Historical Experience. New York: The New Press.Pape, Robert Jr. 1990. “Coercive Air Power in the Vietnam War,” International Security, 15:2, 104-05.Lewey, Guenter. 1985. American in Vietnam. New York: Oxford University Press.Sorley, Lewis. 1999. A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America’s Last Years in Vietnam. New York: Harcourt.Thayer, Thomas C. 1985. War Without Fronts: The American Experience in Vietnam. Boulder, Colorado: Westview Press.Young, Marilyn B. 1991. The Vietnam Wars: 1945-1990. New York: Harper Collins Publishers.

Can Trump overcome this latest blunder regarding the Atlantic article and his disparaging remarks on the troops or did he finally go too far?

Can Trump overcome this latest blunder regarding the Atlantic article and his disparaging remarks on the troops or did he finally go too far?The Part of your Question concerning “finally go too far” is problematic. If it had simply been something like… “What do you think of tRump’s Latest Oral Turd?”, I could honestly say that they would, as always, find a way to cover his unqualified, ignorant, stupid, treasonous, lying, (and very corpulent) ass.Then you had to go and screw it up.You put in the qualifier of “too far”. That forces me to evaluate everything the Ocher Ogre has previously (ignorantly) let slip, against what I think the depths of hypocrisy, self-denial, the “need” for them to be “right at any/all costs, and how patriotic they might be.His Previous comments, ignorant, and self-serving as they were, “MERELY” killed people. Since it didn't necessarily affect them personally, I can fully understand how they could lie themselves into thinking that was fine.When he alternatively sat on his Ass, played Golf, and gave (unmasked/non-social distanced) Campaign Rallies (on the Taxpayer's dime, making Money off them to boot), no one said a word because (unless you were one of the ones who attended, got sick, and/or died - or a Loved One did), you were largely unaffected.When he lied, and claimed “it is only 15 People (who have the corona virus in the US), tomorrow it will be none, or “It will Miraculously Disappear” - The Pandemic was just taking a foothold, was largely an unknown, making it uber-easy to fob off.When he called John McCain a loser, and said he was not a War Hero simply because he was captured, held for six years in Hanoi, tortured, mutilated permanently, and refused to leave while his buddies were still incarcerated, claiming he “preferred people who didn't get caught” to be Heroes instead - as they could see it as “only” one guy (like the “one guy, coming in from China”), it didn't even phase them. Another Pass, hypocritically granted.When he dissed a Gold-Star Mother openly, you all said he was having a bad day, and she must have pissed him off. No biggie - right?When he forgot his name, you all said “Well he’s 74, of course he may forget things at times”.When he dry-humped the Flag on stage for all to admire his um… “style”, You all said it was cute.But (as all on the Left have been saying since day one) tRump, only cares about tRump. He needs to be a “winner”, anyone not thinking as he does is a “loser” (or a sucker, if you die), and he doesn't get it - at all.He doesn't get why men and women join arms. Why they Join (making them suckers)Fight, and Sometimes Die (Making them losers, AND suckers). He wont defend anyone. Not our Nation, not its honor, and he certainly doesn't see the value in holding it dear.He doesn’t understand PTSD, or its devastating effects. Traumatic Brain Injury doesn’t exist. He calls them “headaches”. If you’ve lost a Limb (or two, or three), he undoubtedly thinks you’re “goldbricking”, trying to live off the Government.Did you choose to be maimed? Since you were more than a sucker for joining, but haven't made it to full-blown loser by dying yet, maybe you’re a “lucker”.Feel “lucky”?When your Son, or your Daughter turns 18, and wants to join “like you did”, now you can Proudly say to them… “No, Son. Daddy tRump says only Suckers Join. Don’t be a Sucker like I was. Worse still, you might become a Loser, and Id hate to Lose you.Serving in the Military is a Life-Altering thing. It defines you. You should be Proud of your Service. You take that Pride with you to your Grave - which most People Honor when you are gone - not tRump.You are a Sucker.Is Joe Biden Perfect? Hell no. Hes old (but not near as senile as dumpie boy), but old. You may not like his Politics (but he sure as hell wont sell you down the River). At least he SERVED in the Military. Yes (as tRumpo, and his Right-wing Sycophants have attacked him on), it was “ONLY” the Naval Reserve, and yes, he was “ONLY” an Intelligence Officer But, Biden SERVED!tRump NEVER EVEN SERVED.And If you served in the Military, tRump’s got the Balls to call you a Sucker for your Service.You OK with that?If a Loved one, Husband, Wife, Son, Daughter, Father, Mother, or WHOMEVER died in Combat, was hit by an IED, stepped on a Landmine, whatever, and was injured:You OK with that?The Media is doing their best to spin it as favorably as they can. Headlines are saying “Shocker IF True”, Bullshit! You KNOW it’s true. He said that. Its not the First time. Hes made himself VERY clear on that - to the point of forcefully interrupting the interviewer to get his point across.So, I don’t know how to answer your question right now.As tRump says when he wants to FOB a Reporter off says - “I’ll look into it”, or “Time will tell”, or “Ill get back to you on that”, or“We’ll see”.

When/how did sociopaths/psychopaths found out what/who they are?

If you're a fair and honest individual, you will find that figuring this out is complicated. Since empaths are the Disordered’’s victim of choice, there will be great consternation about what happens with the individual who they think i afflicted with this kind of curse. There is no reason not to include the other b cluster PDs in this process because all of them are going to operate in ways that are hurtful and destructuve. Narcissists, sociopaths, histrionics, and borderlines exploit and maipulate others in ways that unethical, amoral, illegal and selfish. So do psychopaths, but I think theyre less interested in what people think of them than the others and probably lack the rage, impulsivemess and propensity of addictions you will find with many b cluster PDs. The psychopath is believed to be dustinquished by a visbke anomaly in the way their brains are formed. Theres a great deal of conflicting informatin available, especially with all this love lorn hyperbole about fall for the evil antisocial types,which isn't a inheretly negative development but it is certainly creating a lot more confusion in defining terms and in maintaining an appropriate level of restraint about labeling others with these conditions which can be very detrimental and defaming. Why should we care about the reputation and feelings of some personality disorder? To begin with, mental illness is an illness. Affording anyone, Wen psychopaths, empathy is our duty as humans. Ido no this suggest that these people be loved unconditionally nor do they deserve concessions that are compassionate to the point of allowing crimes they commit to become mitigated by the fact that they are mentally ill. Cluster B PDs are the kind of crazy the makes treatment necessary the poor slobs caught up in their orbit. Youll find that the Disordered already enjoy the rare gift unconditional love as well as an unseemly advantage in legal, professional and social situations that empowers them while undermining their victims.To clarify I add that Narcissists, Borderlines, and Histrionics are often lesser threats depending where they are in the spectrum — they can and do have an ability to be somewhat less depraved and often care about others. There are apparently self aware sociopaths no psychopaths who claim they can develop some insights and intentions that alleviate their compulsive cruelty, indifference to others well being and safety as well as their monumental manipulation and madness. What all these apparently contrary developments in psychology imply is that inevitable co morbidity and perplxing contradictions in the diagnosis of these conditions is that there is really just an evil element in the human condition that becomes malignant in some of us for whatever reasons— personal choices being the Most significant among them as we all should understand since each of us had made these choices along the way and chosen what we feel is best. If our choices are self centered, indifferent to the suffering they cause others and we are impervious to the shame, guilt and regret when our choices are realized by destruction and the pain of others, we've furthered our disordered state and it will escalate accordingly.If some psychopaths are unable to feel the empathy and emotions most of us feel ( this too is on spectrum) this doesn't necessarily make them a threat. Some psychopaths, sociopaths, borderline,man's narcissists assert they are what they are but do indeed seek treatment, restrain themselves from acts they understand are antisocial and even do great good by articulating the unique and usually elusive details about their experience . For some of these individuals these efforts are heroic in light of their inability to feel and care in the ways the so called normal person can. Though public perceptions are highly warped and often misguided because of popular culture, we have a great deal of accurate and useful knowledge about the nature of what Dr. Scott Peck called people of the lie.We understand that there are some paychopaths and socipaths out there who are monsters with an appetite for violence, sexual deviation and egregious exploitation. My theory is that the sociopaths are often caught and identified, and because they are impulsive, prone to rage and given to sick sentimental attachments to some of their victims, they act out and expose themselves as the criminals, love frauds, dead beats, users and losers they are. One study and many progressive psychologists make a case for the b cluster personality disorders potential to evolve from narcissists or borderlines into sociopaths or psychopaths. Given the sub categories of narcissists. (Somatic, cerebreal, etc/victim, malignant, covert..) and the fact that all B cluster PDs are Narcissists, I believe this is a crucial clue in resolving conflicting perceptions and terms that make the study of psychology an obtuse and perilous course for professionals and laymen alike. As a barometer for the character and practices of an individual we are attempting to identify as a PD the present explications and DSM inventory of symptoms are exceptional tools with an uncanny insight about the patterns and practices of narcissists, socipaths and psychopaths. I'm less inclined to afford the borderlines descriptions credibility because too many women are labeled borderlines because they are creative, sexually independent, mercurial and vulnerable to the sexism and oppression of society. It's a kitchen sink for troubled individuals who clearlylack the predetory propensities and parasitical nature of narcissism. As a rule Borderlines will not be independent , self sustaining, genuinely remorseful, capable of empathy or willing to seek help and far too many on Quora and in my acquaintance have that diagnosis who are not people of the lie at all. They are just highly sensitive, misunderstood, creative and occasionally nuerotic women who are sick of being called crazy because they object to being lied to, abused and told what to do?While it may not seem like I am answering your question, I want to explain the process, problems, potential perversions we face when attempt to insert an armchair diagnosis of someone we know. These efforts are only natural when trying to determine who we are dealing with. I would never discourage someone from learning more. In fact it would be wise to teach these things to people in high school to protect them and to provide support for those who recognize the disordered descriptions in themselves. Widening awareness of the Disordered and their devastating impact on families, communities, busines, culture and our earth is generrally an important and positive step in the right direction.If you're dealing with someone who may be an antiisocial PD with malignant motives and you're able to genuinely site concrete details where they demonstrated a capacity for cruelty, have sophisticated manipulative skills, show an inability to empathize or accept responsibility for mistakes they made and mistreating you, dwell on their grudges, their needs and their special stature while wallowing in fantasy about fame, fortune and fantasy about perfect love, you're likely looking at some level of narcissism. Narcissists demonstrate extremes in how they treat you going from adoration to nit picking as they devalue you then discard you. Problematically, we are all narcissists to some degree and many normal people are not exactly ethical or compassionate when it comes to love, business and other avenues in life. The primary red flag is one we tend to ignore because the adept PDs know how to operate in such subtle ways while usurping our confidence we are all to likely to dismiss our gut reaction to what raises these flags in the first place.For example, your lover may treat you in a way that feels like abuse but is not easily articulated as this because his approach is so subtle. He may lavish praise on another woman and point out that you're seriously deficient in comparison though hell do so by way of indirect remarks that make you feel lousy and maybe angry enough to become a furious foul mouthed freak. You know you're easy going, even tempered but after beibg baited, negated and denied any kind of kindness despite your tireless efforts to appease this man, you flip out. That's exactly what he wants you to do because he knows you'll do what he never will and regret that outburst. Moreover, you will fail,prey to more of his antics along the way and walk around in the fog of cognitive dissonance which allows him to maneuver himself into a more powerful position and ultimately lets him “"win.”Thanks to your earnest disposition, sense of decency, trauma bonding, addiction to this individual and the early endorphin driven joy you felt when you fell in love with and his arsenal psychologically weapons, your formerly robust and intelligent nature is eroded. While youre going to great lengths and even compromising your ethics, morals and ogher relationships to appease him, he's busy setting up a new soul mate, destroying your reputatoon while lapping up sympathy as your victim and alienating the support system you'll need when he blindsides you by way an ugly public break up and a smear campaign that can be destructive to your life beyond the broken heart and humiliation. I've Ben through these ordeals I am using for examples and because of the stunts My ex husband still pulls, my ability to find work has been frustrated by his defamation, damage to my psyche and the health problems the circumstances created for me. Without work one is quickly confronted with financial concerns that swiftly become stressful and compromise ones social stature beca of living conditions, unpaid bills, complications that arise from the lack of cash creating more costly set backs. People are very cavalier about povertys causes and assumethe poor are lazy, unmotivated, drunkwn and drug addled swine who made their lot on life.This lack of compassion and over simplified perception is the sort the Disordered are happybto perpetuate because they have a habit of draining a victim's resources, setting up situations where the victim is out of work ( You can take some time off to work in your book, baby!) and unprepared when he announces your divorce on facebook in a status update. It's hard to fathom the PDs deliberate and determined desire to destroy somone else, especially a person who loves them, but these people seem to take sadi delight in making others miserable. Mothers will do unthinkable things to her child, bosses will go to great lengths to torpedoe a talented underlings career and perhaps set him up for worse besides. Best friends will coax information from the unsuspecting pal whose confidimg details about her custody battle, a problem at work and her concerns for another friend who may be involved in crime or suffering a mental health crisis. Just as the victim is hit the roughest patch in her life the best friend is offering to testify against in her Family court, called her bully boss to offer him her help in getting the victim fired and she has sent the police after the victims friend p, who isn't arrested or committed but feels betrayed by the victim who truly cares for him.This malignant best friend gave plenty clues about her cruel and malicious intentions by being critical of the victim, creating situations designed to frustrate and embarass her and asserting that the victim was mentally ill, unfit to be a mother and condemning her creative efforts as disturbed, depraved and evidencebthat she isn't sane. Of course she did all this with an appalling pretense of caring and trying to help the victim, who was doing well until she let the fairweather fiend into her life again.The disordered have a habit of coming and going when they fund a primary victim and this is possible becaus the victims temd to firget the ordeals they suffer at the PDs hands. The victim rarely realizes just how viscous and vile these parasites are nor do they understand the nature of the PD They're dealing with. The victim is often a forgiving, good natured person who has an open heart and an abilty to put the past behind them. They don't hold grudges or hate but will look at people the care for in a positive light which is why they allow them back in to do more damage .An individual who turns to the psychological contexts for help in understanding his or her own personal problems is likely to discover that their misery is less about them being mentally ill than the people they've been associating with being assholes. One thing that certainly should be setting off alarms is the accusations an individal makes about you. If your lover is suspicious and jealous with little provocat there's a good chance he or she is the one cheating. You're not flirting, going out alone or any less affectionate but suddenly a trip to Kmart becomes evidence youve been boinking other men. . There's never been any infidelitynon your part, you leave your phone out without a thought and the commitment you made is illustrated by all you do for this lover, who guards his phone obsessively, takes trips out of town on a lark, enjoys unfettered social life without you and even ogles women right in front of you because he knows your trust and sense of security are a given.Aee hownit works? You're in the defensive and he's getting away with cheating and lying as you're moving into a place he wants you at so he has an advantage . Just like the best friend, he'll start telling you you're insane. Any time youre angry, forget some small thing, criticize these people for chronic impositions like being obscenely late, embarrassing you in public, failing to follow through on something important, and blowing them off in ways you'd be court marshalled for if the roles were reversed, the PD tells you you're somehow defective. Say the friend promised to repay a loan you need back to pay for a plane ticket fir a trip to see your ill mother. She avoids you a week and by the time she calls back the low coat flights are unavailable and you cannot possibly pay more or arrange another vacation so you'll likely wait at least a year before you can go and by then your mother may be dead. The extent of this kind behavior is egregious enough to make you question the best friend aand her character because her awareness of the details coupled with the death of her own mother which she's been weepy about for 20 years makes her cavalier attitude conspicuous.Confrimt her with your concerns and she'll call you paranoid as she ignores the points you make to fling crap about how you're totally insane and her therapist says so because she's told him all about you. Everyone in the office where she works agrees with her that you're the worst mother on earth and says your kid would be better off with his father who has 12 DUIs a record of DV and a crack problem. While you know the relationship with kids father is evidence of your own questionable mental health issues, you also know you're working full time, paying your mortga, leading a wholesome life and not dating at all because your chipices are bad and you have the child to consider now. Sufdenly you're arguing all this and pointing out how well the kid does in school, quoting his pedatrician and stifking an urge to point it that the best friend is 300 pounds, an extreme hoarder, has few friends and nondates for over a decade and is odds with every member of her family. You're exhausted by the end of it and guess what? She's successfully averted any consequences for derailing your trip and being an inconsiderate jerk.You will forget abiut that and all the other acts of unconscionable selfishness as you're essentially forgiving and assume these types of transgressions are often oversights, an incident when promises were broken because someone got in over their head or just one of those things where circumstances conspired against you and the other person.You make excuses for these individuals. She says things about your mental health because she means well and may be cocky because she has been in therapy awhile. You know you're not a pillar of perfection and assume you could use therapy like she says but you're not bipolar, psychotic or insane. You also note that therapy hasn't done her much good and that her therapist is a loser for diagnosing another person's on no more than the patient’s account of your behavior, which you know is errant. Bottom line is that the woman is mentally ill by her own admission and she is jealous because you have an education, a career, a child whose perfect, an active social life and only a few extra pounds to lose .That jealoua lover is just as fortunate when it comes to your benevolence. You forgive him for being an attention whore, for being surly and lousy lovemaking skills because he's been rejected by women his whole life. He's awkward and homely , but you're looking beyond that to see he is intelligent, a good dad, stable, accomplished, and always bringing little gifts and taking to nice places.Even that boss who is harassing you is afforded compassion. You do what he tells to do, imagine his sress is off the charts and realize he's insecure and misunderstands you because your associates closely with colleagues he feel are subversive. You do not snipe about him or refuse to volunteer for extra work when you know you are the one futbfornthe duties. But you're not going to brown nose, accept bribes or ignore serious breeches in policy, misused funds and the swift decline in workplace morale and escalating dysfunction his leadership has caused. You're not going to report him right away as you need to be sure he's the problem.In every situation your comportment and self aware are focused where they should be. You may be angry, hurt, annoyed, conflicted but you question yourself and allow the others benefit of doubt. You never suspect that these individuals are deliberately doing terrible things to you and consciously conspiring against you or that they will act out in the ways they are because you don't have a capacity for this kind of contempt and corruption. when you begin to put together the depths of the disordered’s diabolical design and the deliberate destruction they've dine in your life, you cannot fathom it and go into denial. You'd rather believe you're insane than accept that the people you love are determined to do you harm and go to great lengths to deceive you. You struggle to understand why , wondering what youve done to provoke their wrath and decide you sound paranoid and demented each time you describe these assaults to someone else.when a PD puts you on his or her hit list you're unlikely to have many people to seek solace from as it is anyway. They've isolated you with divisive, covert cunning by telling your family and friends things that make them gradually lose respect, trust and faith in you. You may assume your people are loyal and loving to the end but to your horrid the PD has used all kinds things to erode relationships you have including the one you have with yourself. Tell a lie often enough and it becomes the truth . Hell mention your erratic behavior, leak a secret you shared, open old wounds, inadvertently let you know the shaky standing you have and incite an outburst on your part that will confirm how awful you are and when he dumps you your friends and family will be on his side .The best friend has just let off bombs in every area of your life and while you're scrambling to put out the fires she starts an obnoxious assault in which she calls you evil , assert you're a horrible person and demands. You sign over the kid because she is God mother. If you're mentally ill as she says it occurs to you, why is she so busy insulting you about your dysfunctional childhood, disparaging your gifts, mocking your accomplishments and acting like you're unfit to live? After all, youve been very understanding about her mental illness and the inconveniences and discomforts it's created for you.The lover will say youre crazy too. Like the best friend and the bulky boss, hell put that out in a very public way. Hell post it on Facebook, tell all,the people in town he sees every day and when your potential employers call because you've listed him as a reference hellplay the poor pitiful victim and admit you are a psychopath who has a collection of weapons and plotted to kill him for an insurance policy which of course never existed. Even after you discovered he's been lying andncheating since you met, you still trust him wnough to believe he want to see you get a job and never suspect he's been defaming you as he tried to resurrect the romance. When you finally catch him in onentoo many lies you snag his diary and hack his accounts ( you have always had his password but never ever considered violating his privacy). What you learn is enough to unhinge anybody. He's exposed you to an STD, slept with hookers, hit on your son’s female friends at a birthday party and had Ann inappropriate sexual relationship with the girl on Facebook for years. He takes gleeful contempt to a new level as he tells his harem of flying monkeys all these things about you that are private and adds lies that have them consoling him and doing whatever they can to undermine you further.Your boss has a meeting with all,your coworkers after your wrongful termination. He tells them you were plotting to go postal and are disturbed. When you run into people from work they look like you're a Manson girl with a butcher knife singing Helter Skelter as you dance over in a bloodstained sun dress to liberate them from this mortal coilnow your experiences may not be as bizarre or extreme. They may be worse. But whatever they are only you know what you did and this matters because it reflects your level of guilt, credbilty and willingness to accept your own culpability in any ordeal you've suffered. Ideally, you're not yet a victim and as such assume I am out of my mind because you cannot believe people do these things much less get away with them. Frankly, I wish I were the nut case and these things were delusions but the truth is this PD in your life can cinsoire with others and will actively seek them out to conspire and collaborate in an effort to crush you. If three people claim your crazy and capable of violent how many people are willing to accept that you have no record, ten others call you an empathetic and caring person and your list of accomplishments speak to the hard work, good will, success and extraordinary efforts you make to serve a greater good. Moreover, you yourself will doubt your goodness, and begins to believe you're so sick you cannot see the truth about what an evil and hateful human being you are. As the rage and frustration your PD provokes collides with the losses you suffer, you feel quite close to crazy and may have surges of sorrow, fury and despair that have others wondering when you'll need a straight jacket.Warning: if you have attracted one PD there is a good chance you will be afflicted by others as well. We all deal with these people in some capacity. We work with them, socialize with them and d business with them but rarely become aware of the evil lurking in our midst. Chances are we will never know what kind of horrors they visit on others and if we hear about their divorce, the dust up at their last condo committee picnic or whispers that they've been involved in some criminal activity , we will not believe that nice lady or friendly old gent is guilty of anything.The PD has glib charm, an army of devoted friends who will lie for him. They'll destroy anyone he tells them to. The PD can create a mob on social media and remain invisible as they deliver diabolical retalliation that destoys your name and composure. You find Twitter and other sites are rather indifferent about this even when photos and private documents are illegally posted and the bullies create potential breeches in security that out you in peril. These monsters network and will stalk you relentlessly collecting any scrap of information they can dredge up and embellish into an excuse to create yet more anguish in your life. People you don't know will do their bidding with ruthless precision. And if you're a fat malignant shut in without anything to do but lash out at strangers on Twitter and destroy an enemies business, you have time to make a mob wth sock puppet profiles that conveniently swoop in to confirm the crap alleged and insult you.Yes, this is not only a reality, it's a daily feeding frenzy on that network where the leadership addresses the media with pretenses of being responsible and compassionate businessmen who uphold very strict and politic correct policies but a cursory look and an emailed complaint about tweets that attack you are illustrate scary calls for violence, hate and capricous cruelty and you will understand that the twitter big shots are also PDs who who see the trolls and tremendously sick tweeter twits as a profitable mainstay. So trolls are encouraged to say stuff like Rape Ashly Judd, Robin Williams committed suicide because his daughter is o ugly and has been Michelle Shocked is a psychotic closet lesbianTechnology allows th PD to flourish and may be the reason we are seeing an escalation in the Disordered and the damage they do. Indeed the attention and effectiveness of their plays on line could be reason for an expedited evolution from garden variety narcissist to sociopath. One of the most important things to be aware of in cincert with this has to do with the PDs cunning and calculated ability to smear their slime all over the victim. And this is a concern for many reasons.First off, the PD and people in general are prone to projection. This simple nugget of information can spare you from plenty of pain and if used correctly make you more self aware and therefore more likely to act with integrity. Unfortunately , that noble impulse is a lure for the PD. While you're questioning yourself in earnest he is all too willing to toss false clues in your direction .When you're wise enough to heed your gut and the copious evidence of the PDs heinous nature it may well be because you've sought out the truth in blogs, books and support groups which are copious and typically credible with or without an actual psychologist in the mix. I encouragebthis and journaling often to sort through the concerns and confusion your experiences cause you even if you presently have no PD ordeals to speak of. I doubt that anyone ends up on Psychopath No More without the harrowing experience of being a PD victim first but it would be a good thing if people were online looking at these things before disaster drive them to it because they'd be able to avoid the nightmares empaths have endured over and over because they never had that kind of resourec to turn to. The victims believe they are the problem and spend a lifetime in misery or worse yet become much like their PDs to buffer the raw rage and ruin they are reduced to.While chat rooms offer information, empathy and resources that can save an individual's life and liberate them from the cycle of abuse, they also provide an insidious outlet mall of new prey for the PDs who are swooping in to play the role of victims as they seduce new victims. Shooting fish in a barrel is a NPs kind of sport and a perfect storm for some poor wounded victim who is vulnerable and there forbthe picking.Now let's say you have not come this far and just think this new love of yours is too good to be true. A few things have happened that givenyiu pause. He says ugky things about his ex, seems too eager to seal the deal and there is something about the way he talks to doormen, waitresses and sales people that makes you uneasy. He has to have the best of everything, seems a little vain and tells tall tales as well as what may be lies because you've caught on to little glitches. You're feeling pressured to commit and the resistance you give makes him say and do small things that cause you big upsets though you can't say why exactly you're so hurt by them.You do the basic tour of the PD house horrors and while he's clearly showing a lot of potential tells of NArcissism you're still crazy about him and suspect this is all about your fear intimacy or what he says is being too sensitive . However you're constantly confronted by more evidence of this soul mate being a PD and that makes you vigilant and less appeased and impressed by his grandiose gestures and flattery. At some point you decide it's not stalking to check out your boyfriends social networks. When you do, you run headlong into the first foray into the heartache of being in love with someone who isn't who he says or who you wanted him to be.Hes got a wife. An ex wife. A collection of little kids, a few other girlfriends and many profiles that present various versions of himself including one or two that are looking for lovenon matchmaker sites. He's not a successful marketing executive, he manages an Olive Garden in Oakland and is hoping to be promoter for hot body contests, weed conventions and porno award ceremonies .You decide to dump him and do so in cold officious message you leave in his service noting you'd exiected him to be home as he had said he'd be because he had a big account to work on. You're able to stay calm as you explain that his failure disclose his domestic obligations, true profession and career goals along with nagging concerns you had about his values, veracity and venal preoccupations Made is necessary to end thinga immediately. There is no reason to call back or waste any time on discssing it further, you're done and ask that he never contact you again.There is an avalanche of emotions and thoughts that make your life unbearable fir days, he calls but you do not pick up or listen to his messages. His emails go to spam and you've blocked him om FB. You commiserate with uour girlfriends who sympathize and share their own horror stories. One or two confess they were not so luck and had lengthy relationships with these players. To soothe yourself you return to the socipaths, psychopath and narcissistic abuse sites where you focua less on the content and more on comments.Heres there $60,000 question.Do you call this guy out by name and call him a PD on the site and lament his mistreatment?Do you tell people you have in common he's a psychopath?Do you get so worked up you start your own blog and name him when you explain what happened then encourage readers to expose the names of their PDs with the intention of exposing these monsters for the sake of other victims?Answwer is NO!Here is the problem. You're not a shrink. If you were you'd still be in no position to diagnose him because you're incapable of being objective. It takes many tests and lots of exoertise to diagnose a mental health problem and the professionals get things wrong all the time. It's impudent and reckless to assugn such an extreme label to anyone when you're not an expert and an exoert isn't allowed to disclose that info anyway. You can be sued for defamation in the event he sees the blog or posts and can furnish an evaluation that contradicts your claims which are per say libel and considered damaging enough to ruin his reputation and create pain and suffering in his life besides. Furthermore there may be a lot that asshole did wrong but you never had enough information to know if he was disordered and if he is what kind of person puts a mental illness up for public veiweing ? Isn't there an inherent intolerance and cruelty in such an pernacious act? In fact if this guy is indeed a PD aren't you provoking him and putting yourself at risk by exposing him? There is a good chance this behavior will make you look like the PD. PDs donthis kind of thing often to deflect the victim’s account of what the PD did and undermine that person's credibility before they have any idea what the monster is doing. The victim will frequently react in ways that make them look crazy because so many people accept whatever the PD says, and in my mind they are enablers and idiots who deserve a psychopath as their boss, as their mate or as an accountant.The jeek you dated could be an idiot with charm and game who loves his kids and supports them who lets his nether regions lead the way. He may have lied because he knew you were out if his league and actually liked you so much he didn't think thatbtheough all the way, you may never know.What you do know is that something didn't smell right. That's all we need to know. It doesn't matter if the person is a narcissist, a psychopath or player with self esteem issuea. When you see enough of the PD cluster B tendencies and your gut is going ape spit, do what you know is right, trudge on valiantly and get over it.Diagnos someone may be crucial to long term victims and parents who share children with a PD but blasting them with assertions about their psychopathy in public is ill advised. Sadly, too few people question that sort of thing but I think anyone who calls an ex sociopath on FB and has a pity party to provoke the ex as he defames them everywhere he happens to be is the disordered one. The PD Ian a dangerous and evil mutation few of us understand but this doesn't mean you get aCt as badly as he has. You'll want revenge and no one can blame you for that, but the PD always wins when your integrity and compassion are compromised. They want what you have l your ability to love and live in complete earnest is why they find a way into your life and its also why they come to resent you l they take sadistic pleasure in inflicting their misery on you and stealing your blessings. That can't have those things but it makes them feel good to make sure you don't have them. And whole they usually won't actually murder you in the criminally inclined way, they will make you sick, murder your soul and destroy all that was good in you if they get they chance—you have to let them in one way or another. Like a vampire they need an invitation.86 the PD from your life and thoughts. Let the sadness, anger and illusions go. The only way to win is wander off to enjoy life without the disordered in it,wheewl that was cathartic. Thank you for asking that question and godspeed .you let them go.

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