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Is there an LDS version of boy scouts?

There WAS in the past. In technical terms, no. In practical terms, yes. LDS Troops are now officially leaving the "Boy Scouts" (as their 11–17 year old program was called from 1908 - 2018) due to dissatisfaction with the national BSA policy on allowing gays to be adult Scout leaders. They have discontinued Scouting as their official boys program and have replaced it with a new, Morman-created program. Scouts currently enrolled in Scouting are allowed to finish their Scout "careers" should they wish to. Eagle requirements were identical for Mormon Scouts and non-LDS Scouts. But there was a culture amongst LDS Scouts that resulted in much higher completion rates than traditionally seen in non-LDS units. For many years, the national completion rate hovered around 1%. Now, it is 4–5 percent. I myself saw considerable evidence amongst LDS units of how this occurred. First, there was the frequently- stated mantra "16, Eagle Scout, car keys" which I heard from LDS Scouts who attended District Merit Badge fairs I participated in as a Merit Badge counselor. Second, some LDS Merit Badge counselors would impose restrictions (despite being on the Disrict Merit Badge counselor list) working ONLY with Mormon Scouts. Third, because the Mormon societical mode is a tight-knit one there is at least a subconscious pressure not to create problems with fellow "elders" or "sisters" by not signing-off on Merit Badges if the candidate is for it was minimally qualified. All of this was reflected in news reports like "Local Boy Scout Troop holds Eagle Ceremony For 7 Eagle Scouts", a highly improbable statistical result. The widely-used term "Eagle Factory" was coined to describe such units. To become a "true" Eagle Scout according to the way Lord Baden-Powell originally designed the program, advancement to Scouting's highest ranks had to come from the Scout himself. He was given the opportunities and resources to make Eagle, but was not compelled by outside forces such as mandatory participation at Merit Badge fairs. These Scouts almost always met with complete strangers off the Merit Badge counselor list, NOT with the Fathers of other Scouts they might well already know. Counselors with NO prior association with the Scout coming before them had no secondary reason to be easier on completion of Merit Badge requirements. This is why the historic completion rate was 1% until the 1990s or so, and is highly likely to significantly drop back in the years to come. Finally, the LDS leaders and Scouts I dealt with in my 50-year career were some of the nicest, morally-centered people I have ever met. They were committed to their vision of Scouting and were always gracious with their time and use of their Church facilities for Scout functions. By these comments I am not trying to say otherwise. But the quality of an Eagle Scout comes from that candidate's PERSONAL DEDICATION, not PARENTAL EXPECTATION, which is a subtle, but hugely important difference.

How hard is it to become an Eagle Scout?

How hard is it to become an Eagle Scout?There's no easy answer - “hard” is in the eye of the beholder.Obviously, it's not something everyone is willing to do, since only a small percentage of youth who join Scouting earn Eagle.It takes time and it takes work. You can't just skate through it.Much depends on how involved you are and how active and supportive your Troop is.You have to earn specific Merit Badges.You have to camp a certain number of days.You have to be active in your Troop. That doesn't mean just showing up. That means actively participating and taking a leadership role.Our Troop is fairly small. In 18 years, we've had 18 Eagles. Our average Troop size is 10 - 12 Scouts at any given time. But we have the most active Troop in our District, and one of the most active in the Council. We camp every month. We do community service almost every month. Most of the Scouts who stay with us make Eagle. Unfortunately, Vegas is a transitional town, so many of our youth wind up moving, either to another Troop or totally out-of-state. So we generally only have one or two Scouts make Eagle each year.An Eagle is the epitome of Scouting. He is everything people think of when they hear “Boy Scout” and “Eagle Scout”. He is a leader. He is capable of making decisions and deal with changing events. He is someone employers want to hire because he is trustworthy, loyal, etc.

How does the Boy Scouts of America enforce its exclusion of gay and atheist members?

What follows is an email I sent to some folks in the media who had weighed in on this or reported on the issue some time ago when this issue was particularly visible in the news.Dear Ms. Leitsinger, Ms. Maggie Koerth-Baker, Mr. Rob Tornoe, Ms. Mary Sanchez, Mr. John McCormickI read with great interest all your fairly recent informative online articles for NBC News, your Boing Boing post , your NewsWorks commentary, your Kansas City Star article and the Huff Po article respectively regarding the BSA. They inspired me further to read other articles and information on the topic and to do some reminiscing by pulling out some old BSA items belonging to me, my father and my grandfather. I was quite interested to read many of the Eagle Scout “resignation” letters from men (and some women)of all ages contained in Ms. Koerth-Baker’s piece and could tell that they were written with heartfelt emotion and conviction.I earned the Eagle Scout award with bronze, gold and silver palms in 1974. I stayed active with Scouting over the years serving variously as an Assistant Scoutmaster, merit badge counselor, District Chairman and District Committee member as well as in other volunteer capacities including helping to form a Troop in Yokosuka, Japan where I was serving as a U. S. Naval Officer in the 1980’s. I also received the Daniel Carter Beard Masonic Scouter Award a few years ago. I chose to contribute as a way to show appreciation for all that Scouting had done for me. My father who is now deceased earned the Eagle Scout award in 1941 and my deceased maternal grandfather was awarded the Silver Beaver also in 1941. I have attached a photo of some of these items.I would like to pass on some anecdotal information which sheds some light on my position and thoughts for what they are worth concerning the recent news and media coverage about the BSA’s reaffirmation of the policy excluding “self-avowed” homosexuals as well as religious belief requirements as they pertain to those participating in the BSA. I thought some of this information would be of interest to one or more of you given your recent articles. I have no doubt that many other Scouting veterans or interested citizens, participants, parents, etc. feel similarly given the wide range of articles, opinions, etc. which have recently been published. That many others are strident in their support of the BSA’s decision to continue to exclude is also evident and shows that free speech is alive and well. I hope the online clearinghouse of ideas and opinions continues to foster a healthy exchange and remains civil.The first instance involved my serving on an Eagle Scout Board of Review some fifteen to twenty years ago. As you may know the Board of Review is a final interview by an Eagle Scout candidate with Scouting leaders and typically some persons involved in the community as well. In advance of the Board meeting I had given the candidate a couple of newspaper articles or editorials concerning the issue of homosexuality and the belief in a deity or god requirement of the BSA with the understanding that I would ask his opinion on these “real world” issues and that there would be no wrong answers and his position(s) would have no bearing on my decision as I had reviewed information pertaining to him and been impressed by his determination and character. The other Board members asked the typical “softball’ questions concerning how many badges he had earned, etc. and when I began to address him I could tell that he was probably thinking “what does this man want to hear?”. I asked him this hypothetical: One of the newer younger Scouts confides in one of the older experienced Scouts in a leadership position that the younger scout does not believe in a deity. The candidates response was that he would try to talk the younger Scout into belief in a deity. When I further altered the hypothetical that the younger Scout tells the older Scout that he will say the words “duty to god” to get along but that he did not believe in this phrase the candidate expressed with an audible sigh of relief that “this would be all right”. Although it was, to me, a disappointing answer I probably would have said something very similar when I was that age and I did not withhold support from an otherwise very talented and deserving candidate. I hope that the young man grew into a strong willed, independent and productive citizen. I wish that the young man did not have to feel that exclusion of different viewpoints and ideas simply for exclusion’s sake and the encouragement of hypocrisy or “going along to get along” was necessary. I wonder whether the passage of time, his interaction with others, the assessment of their character and the accruing of wisdom and experience have altered his view.The second instance occurred several years ago when I was attending an information and “indoctrination” (my word) session given by members of the local BSA Council after volunteering to serve in the capacity of a District Chairman. One of the sessions was given by a then current Council Executive Committee member who announced that his talk would be about the “3 G’s” or “God, girls and gays”. I do not remember all of the specifics of his presentation other than the summary dismissal of any ideas that girls should be allowed to participate or that anyone other than “normal, average people” would believe in “God” (he was clear that there could be only one, correct god). What I do remember was the vituperative attack on “gays” which included the standard slurs that I will not put into print. It was made very clear that this attitude was far reaching and was official policy both on a national and local level. It was very uncomfortable to sit through.The third instance occurred a few years later when I was approached by a person who had been a Scout and knew that I was involved in Scouting and that I was (at that time)a prosecutor. He asked for confidentiality which I promised and proceeded to tell me that he had been abused by a local adult Scout leader in the past. It had obviously affected him greatly. I don’t feel it would be productive to share any specific details and I do not know if he ever took any additional action but the adult allegedly involved presented as a heterosexual so I can only assume he was. The leader involved has since passed away and much time had already passed when the victim spoke with me. I suppose my point is that in this case someone was tragically victimized by a heterosexual who was welcomed into the Scouting community whereas an otherwise law abiding, talented and respectful person would have been turned away from membership if he or she happened to be a homosexual. At the time of my writing this a news article came out a few days ago detailing the fact that a state legislator in my state recently “came out” as a homosexual and mentioned the fact that he had been an Eagle Scout and had actually been a paid employee of the BSA. It will be interesting to see how or if he will be pilloried for this fact. From what I can tell he seems to be a well-respected and decent person.Lastly, I was proud to have served under a Navy Commander who was one of the most professional persons I have known and who was awarded the Bronze Star Medal for service as an Intelligence Officer behind the lines in the Viet Nam War. When I read his obituary and related articles several years ago I found out that he refused his Eagle Scout award on principle. I mention this Naval Officer and his Eagle Scout award because he was gay and this was something that I never knew despite our constant interaction during the years we served together in close quarters and for long periods of time at sea aboard a U.S. Navy Destroyer. The articles about him show that his professional conduct was above reproach and that he was entrusted with sensitive information pertaining to the highest levels of National Security. This man personified the ideals of being an Eagle Scout. To think that he would not even have been allowed to be considered as an Eagle Scout candidate much less protect his fellow citizens if his sexual orientation had been known is sad indeed.I suppose at the end of the day I feel that the BSA would rather welcome and be proud of Fred Phelps, the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church as an Eagle Scout than they would someone such as myself or my former fellow Naval Officer, a man who served our country so honorably or many of the other Eagle Scouts who have weighed in on this subject and come down on the side of substance and character.In what will be one of my last acts of participation in a Scouting event I was very pleased to attend an Eagle Scout Court of Honor held locally for a mentally challenged young man who worked very hard for this honor. I had a connection to this young man as he had been born as the result of the rape of his severely mentally challenged biological mother and I was the prosecutor who prosecuted her attacker, a person who had been entrusted with being her caregiver in a group home. The young man was fortunate enough to have been raised by wonderful and caring adoptive parents. I think it is a testament to the BSA that the organization would have been so accommodating and supportive of this young man’s desire to become an Eagle Scout by making some exceptions and accommodations. That the BSA would not also recognize that those who might not believe in a supreme being or are gay but who are also of good character and morals is disappointing to say the least.If I had to venture a guess as to the reasons for the BSA’s position on these issues especially in the last several years when they have become more prevalent in the media I would have to say somewhat cynically that it is purely and simply about money. It is not surprising that the organization would always have been considered to be socially and politically conservative in the past especially given its origins and the circumstances of its founding a century ago. Money contributions nearly always involve pandering to the largest contributors and there is at least a fair amount of evidence that in recent decades the larger corporate type donors are socially conservative and expect something for their money. It is probably no accident that there seems to be a link between certain organized churches and the BSA again even more so in recent years. One of the difficulties that I have had with contributing money in the past is the sense I have that there is a “bureaucracy” mentality within the BSA and that only a small percentage of many contributions actually found their way to directly benefitting individual Scouts. In the past I have sometimes asked Adults/Leaders involved with Scouting to let me know if there was a particular need for fees or other costs for a scout who might be less fortunate and the cost could be covered anonymously and without a great deal of waste. I will no longer be doing so however. Indeed, I have rethought much of my charitable contribution endeavors to avoid contributions going to otherwise noble politically or religiously affiliated organizations whose overall goals are admirable but who espouse certain specific policies or dogma with which I strongly disagree.One of the threads I hear coming through in the comments to many of the articles is the fact that the policies are not enforced or are enforced in a very lax way or even ignored. These comments frequently compare the BSA’s policy to a “DADT” policy. This is incongruous and merely breeds a disrespect for the policy. To be consistent and if they are sincere about this policy the BSA should, once these abuses of policy are known, take steps to prevent the ignoring of the policy. The fact that this does not occur and that fees continue to be collected from units, chartering sponsors, organizations, etc. who may disregard the policy is very telling. Again I think that it is mainly about money.Just as our nation is not the same as it was one hundred years ago the BSA has changed and should probably re assess such policies. This is not to say that if they are found to be a private organization they cannot dictate membership criteria but they should be consistent in doing so. It has been some time since I read the Supreme Court opinion in the Dale case but will go back to do so in order to see the rationale for finding that the BSA is private in light of the fact that the organization is chartered by Congress and that Eagle Scouts get a pay grade benefit in the military.In summary, I feel that the BSA should certainly be able to set its own standards but that they need to be applied fairly and evenly. While I was hopeful that the BSA would have used character as a criteria vs. sexual orientation or belief in a deity in their most recent addressing of this issue the fact that they will not does not discourage me from personally using this standard as I have found it to be more than appropriate and adequate. That the BSA has had a hand in developing men and women who are moral, fair, honorable and tolerant of all is something the BSA can be proud of even if it means that some of us will not be participating or contributing actively due to reasons for which the BSA has been largely, if not ironically, responsible.Thanks again to all of you for your time and your contributions to this issue.Norm

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