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How and when does a medical student discover that he or she is interested in a specialty? Is it during rotation or internship?

Q. How and when does a medical student discover that he or she is interested in a specialty? Is it during rotation or internship?A2A. Most people choose their specialties of interest during required clinical rotations in the third year. Senior year they take electives in the specialties of interest and then do more of the specialty chosen, perhaps away rotations at outside institutions to see different settings and as an audition where they hope to apply to.Internship would be too late although there are always first year residents who want to switch specialties or programs. It is different being a fourth year student in certain programs than actually perform as a lowly intern.The following are many different ways people choose their specialties.Personality, I was at a quandary after the required rotations since I had no strong interest in Internal Medicine, General Surgery, Psychiatry, Pediatrics and Obstetrics and Gynecology. My senior year I took electives in Anesthesiology and Diagnostic Radiology. I chose the latter. So the first few senior year electives are crucial. I had senioritis the rest of the year , until internship loomed and I had to prepare for FLEX (now USMLE 3)All the best!choosing your medical specialty: 7 factors to consider and 3 lists to makeJanuary 30, 2016 in CareerOkay guys, I'm going to take a first pass at this HUGE topic. I also recommend our career profile series. Elyse"When you're choosing a specialty, you're deciding an old man's life with a young man's mind. Think about what you want for the future, not what's cool today. - unknown orthopedic surgery attending.Recently, I found a post in evernote titled “What I want to be when I grow up” written 11/11/2013. I’ve mentioned before that I wanted to to go to Emory and become a dermatologist since freshman year of undergrad, but there were other options that almost swayed me from both of those decisions (how I chose a medical school coming at a later date).Choosing a specialty is a huge decision. Unlike most other professional fields, changing medical fields as a physician is a huge ordeal that requires additional years of scut level training. It’s not impossible, but like most things - it’s easier just to get it right the first time.In this article, I’ll discuss factors to consider when choosing a specialty and then I’ll show you the contents of my “What I want to be when I grow up” note and encourage you to make your own. This article is based on the American system, but I hope that it will be useful for everyone. PS: I'm really enjoying learning about how the medical school process works in different countries. Thanks for your emails on the Australian and UK systems Florah and Louise!Factors to Consider:[ 1 ] intellectual curiosityWhen you choose to practice medicine, you make a commitment to life-longer learning; this is your duty to your patients. For this reason, it’s essential to go into a field you find interesting! Cardiology has many of the functional features I loved about dermatology (see below), but I could not make myself excited about lipid profiles or statins. With that point, every specialty has one or two really cool procedures, but you should ideally find the most mundane things the specialty does interesting because that will be your “bread and butter.” Chest pain is not interesting to me, but I can talk to you about acne all day, everyday. On my medicine rotations, I was always blown away by the medical students who knew all the recent NEJM studies. When were they reading this stuff? They were reading it on Friday nights when I was reading about acne. That’s why we’ll both be more successful in our chosen fields than if we tried to do something else. Be true to your own mind. Don’t let what other people think is important determine your life. Most people find the topic of dermatology to be the absolute worst. To me, that’s just job security.What topics do you find yourself reading about out of pure curiosity? In my opinion, this is the most important factor of them all.[ 2 ] skill setBe honest with yourself. What are you good at?If you're not a "people person," maybe you shouldn't go into a predominately clinic setting. With that said, just because you hate one clinic setting does not mean you do not like clinic at all. Clinic is a completely different experience depending on the patient population, your attending, your role, and the topic. I didn't care for primary care clinic, ophthalmology clinic, or breast clinic but ENT, derm, melanoma, and gynecology clinic were my favorite rotations of medical school.If you're clumsy with your hands, maybe you shouldn't go into a surgical or procedural specialty. If you're a third or fourth year, realize that your skill set will increase with residency, but if you're significantly less coordinated that a normal human being, do some soul searching on this; residency and the match might be very difficult for you. If you're a first year and you're interested in a surgical or procedural specialty (this includes dermatology, anesthesiology, and emergency medicine) I suggests you pick up a hobby that requires good hand-eye coordination - such as video gaming, knitting, or cooking.i was explicitly asked "are you good with your hands?" during interview season.[ 3 ] lifestyleIt pains me a little to write this section because I genuinely think dermatology is so freaking cool, and I can’t imagine myself doing anything else. It was really frustrating having to compete with people who were doing dermatology solely because of desired lifestyle and their aptitude for standardized tests, but it is not my place to judge, especially since I have come to realize lifestyle is also important to me.For whatever reason, the idea of lifestyle gets a bad rap in medicine - as you can tell by the previous sentence, I've been brainwashed myself. There’s the idea that if you’re a doctor, that is your primary identify and the most important thing in your life. Don't drink this tea.don’t let anyone make you feel bad for wanting a life outside of medicine. at the same time, don’t let anyone make you feel bad for not caring about a life outside of medicine. we all want different things and that’s okay.What’s important is that you’re honest with yourself. As a dermatology resident, I will have more time outside of the hospital than my surgery counterparts. I will be able to attend more weddings, more funerals, more trips to the dog park, etc. However, I will never acutely save anyone's life and I will never guide another infant into this world. This summer, the UAB orthopedic, trauma, and vascular surgery teams saved my seventeen year old cousins life when he was at the brink of exsanguination. Now, he's going on college interviews. I am so grateful to all of my friends who are becoming surgeons.As more women become physicians and more men fight for the privilege to be present in their family's lives, every field becomes more lifestyle friendly. Obstetrics, for example, used to be notoriously awful for both attending and resident, but now it's common for attendings to share call and obstetric responsibility with their group members. The same is true of internal medicine now that hospital and ambulatory responsibilities are mostly split. The residency training for both of these careers are still incredibly tough though.Also keep in mind that academics is a skewed view of what most of medicine actually looks like. If you have the time, reach out to someone in private practice to get a good view of all of your options. Although, I will say, the doctors at my private hospital appear to work way more clinical hours than my attendings in academics.Final note - one of my colleagues was advised that "If you can see yourself being equally happy in two fields, chose the one with the better lifestyle."[ 4 ] length of trainingA popular piece of advice people give is to “look at the attending’s lifestyle - not the resident’s - because that will be your life.” I agree and disagree with this depending on how long your residency training will be and at what point you’re at in your life. Residency occurs during most people’s late 20s/early 30s - this is a very important time of life where most people are starting families, making lifelong investments, etc. If those things are important to you, you should think long and hard about a 7+ year residency.image source: scutmonkey comics[ 5 ] expected salaryThis is another thing that medicine demonizes, but don't lose sight of the fact that you are choosing your career. If you expect to live a certain lifestyle, you should be able to afford it. If you have a significant amount of loans, you will need to earn more money than a classmate who doesn’t have any loans to maintain the same lifestyle. Most of my friends who went into pediatrics don’t care about money. That’s important because they won’t make a lot of it (relatively speaking), but they won’t be resentful to their career or their patients because they knew what they were getting themselves into.The other side of the coin is medical reimbursements are volatile and will most definitely change during our lifetime. A primary care attending once told me that when he was a resident, the smartest people went into primary care because specialties didn’t make any money at that time. bahahaha. Oh how things have changed. So, keep expected salary in mind, but this should be a small consideration. Also, keep in mind that salaries can be very variable depending on your patient population and your "niche." Skin cancer and cosmetics are two of the highest paying areas of dermatology, but I'm not particularly interested in either. I want to work with inpatient dermatology, skin or color, and patients with systemic rashes.[ 6 ] colleagues/environmentThis one is somewhat tricky. Usually certain personality types are attracted to certain specialties, but programs tend to have clusters of certain personalities. So, just because everyone in your dermatology program is mean (are there mean dermatologists?) does not mean that is true everywhere. I wouldn’t let this factor too much into your decision. It’s very unlikely that you can't find a group of people that you like who practice your same specialty; you just might have to do some searching. “Eventually soul mates meet, for they have the same hiding place” applies to more than romantic lovers. Away rotations are a good way to get a better glimpse into this.image source: scutmonkey comics[ 7 ] competitivenessI hate that this is a factor, but it very much is. Have an honest conversation with someone about your chances of matching into your desired specialty. We’ve reached a point where every specialty is continually becoming more and more competitive. There are a few options when applying to a competitive specialty - 1) apply to that specialty with a backup plan if you don’t match 2) apply to that specialty and a less competitive specialty at the same time 3) take time off before applying to boost up your application and then do option 1 or 2. If you have your heart set on something that you're maybe not competitive enough to do, realize that there are probably less competitive alternatives. All hope is not loss. For example, instead of orthopedic surgery, you could do an internal medicine or family medicine residency then do a sports medicine fellowship. Charting Outcomes in the Match is a great resource that makes everyone wet their pants. It's published every two years. I've linked to the most recent 2014 data.Keep in mind that grades are not the only way to be competitive. There are multiple components of your application including clerkship grades, step I & II scores, AOA status, research experience, and letters of recommendation. Each of these items hold different weight in different specialties. Letters of recommendation matter a lot in small fields because all of the applicants are so spectacular. It just makes sense to take someone that your respected coworker vouched for.My clerkship grades were above average, but not perfect, and in the words of my mentor, my step I score was "fine, but won't blow anyone away" (my step II score was in the blow away range). I think the strongest aspect of my application lied in the fact that Emory is a highly regarded dermatology program and the chair and vice chair of the department put onto paper how highly they regarded me. Don't get me wrong, I worked my butt off for a dermatology spot. I have JAAD publications from the first year of medical school to just this month. I worked with everyone in the department either in clinic or on research. The faculty in the department watched me grow up from a little first year that didn't know anything to a confident and competent fourth year. That consistent and productive interest and energy, in my opinion, was my most competitive feature. (Disclaimer: I don't actually know why programs ranked me.)Related articles: Find your competitive advantage with our personal SWOT analysis and the 5 people to have in your inner circle for successOne question I got on instagram while making this post is the question of exposure:how do you decide on a field that you've had very little exposure to?You don't! This is why it's so important to take advantage of your time as an M1 and M2 to shadow different physicians. Dermatology, ophthalmology, ENT, orthopedics, radiation oncology, urology, and emergency medicine are fields that people are notorious for changing into at the last minute (read TeawithMD's story here), or switching to during residency, or completing a second residency for, or just missing out on all together. Take the time before rotations start to read about different specialties and then get exposure to fields that peak your interest. Ask residents in fields you are interested in what else they considered (I'm working on a list for the blog too). Of course, the shadowing experience you get as an M1/M2 won't be enough to decide on a specialty, but it will be enough to peak your interest in doing an elective early on.If you're a third year and already into rotations, try hard to make time to get exposure to these fields. Definitely talk to residents about their experiences so far, why they chose that specialty, and what they're planning to do after residency. Always talk to residents. You can also use our career profile series as a resource. I ask all of the residents how they made their specialty decision.The AAMC careers in medicine is also a useful resource.okay, with all that said - here are the contents of that evernote document i mentioned earlier:I encourage you to make three lists:Things that are important to you (your values)Topics that interest you (what do you want to know more about). These topics don't have to be obviously related to medicine. This will allow you to imagine different career paths in different specialtiesThe specialties you're deciding between with a quick word vomit about how you feel about each specialty.Related articles: I wrote this post before Yentil wrote "From dreams to objectives: Identifying your vision, mission and values," but it's amazing how similar the approaches are!When I made this list I'd completed all of the rotations except for cardiology, dermatology, and allergy.things that are important to me (in no particular order):strong doctor-patient relationship; long-term relationshipsfeeling like I have accomplished something at the end of the dayI have to use my handsvariety in day to day worklifestyle / salaryi want to make people feel beautiful. i want to help people fall madly in love with themselves.topics that interest me (in no particular order):the philosophy of beauty - what does it mean to be beautiful? how the perception of beauty changes over time, between cultures, and between individuals within the same cultureimmunology - autoimmunity, gut microbiomenutrition - how what we eat affects us physiologicallywomen's healthddx:dermgood mix of quick procedures/chronic medical conditions, happy, friendly patients, RASHES ARE AWESOME, large quality of life impact, I get to use my hands and my mind; very competitive.. (because it’s awesome)ob/gynwomen’s gynecology clinic has good balance between procedures/routine follow-up, happy, healthy patients, I would love to support women through specific issues, but hate the political air that surrounds the field, also, i hate obstetrics, surgeries are fun and quickpsychIs there a greater betrayal than to be betrayed by one’s mind??? It would be an honor to help people through difficult times. I find the concept of how we perceive ourselves vs how society perceives us very interesting. Really interested in the budding research into how autoimmunity and inflammation affects (causes?) psychiatric conditions. Such a good feeling to discharge a patient that came in psychotic or depressed at the VA, but horrible feeling working at mental health hospital for lower socioeconomic patients; they have no social support, that makes me very sad and frustrated, I had a couple of patients threaten me or become infatuated with me during my rotation. I don’t think I would like that for the rest of my life.. plus, psychiatrist aren’t the best at interpersonal relationships themselves. also, i need to use my could really see myself as an eating disorder specialist or a physician who specializes in medical care of psychiatric patients. hmm...cardiologyumm dr. love the cardiologist that fixes broken hearts??? SOLD! I like the idea of a clinic based practice and I could read echos 1-2 half days a week for a break from clinic. Oh you have chest pain after you walked a mile for the first time in 8 years? okay.. here’s a statin. I'm absolutely not interested in gunning for another 3 years to get a cardiology spot.allergy and immunologyatopic kids are my favorite patients! This is a niche I am most definitely comfortable with. After all, all of my research is in chronic pruritus, most of which has an allergy component. I would have to do a medicine residency though because peds is out of the question.. Also, i like the allergic component of different diseases, but I also like non-allergy related aspects of dermatology - acne, hyper pigmentation, hair loss, etc. However, derm doesn’t deal with asthma and food allergies which I also find interesting. I’m particularly interested in the new budding idea of “sensitivities” vs complete allergies. I wonder if I could do an allergy fellowship after dermatology?Without going into my personal statement, I chose dermatology because of the fact that I find the pathology really interesting and the day to day practical aspects enjoyable. My small group, to this day, insists that I should be an ob/gyn. haha.Specialty Profiles (wire.ama-assn.orgThe Ultimate Guide to Choosing a Medical Specialty, Third Edition: Brian FreemanHow to Choose a Medical Specialty: Sixth Edition: Anita D. TaylorMedical Specialty: How To Pick?!'Whatever you are, Be a good one.' - Abraham Lincoln.When we are in medical school we find some students who are firm about what they want to do. Some of us, like myself, are in a constant state of confusion. There are people who affect our opinion would be our parents, inspiring teachers, someone in the family with an illness, successful doctors, a relatives hospital, and our own whims and fancies that make us consider varied specialties.I've picked and rejected my choices very often. To the extent of considering specialties beyond medicine. Cardiology, radiology, family practice, radiation oncology, sleep medicine, endovascular surgery, biomedical engineering, healthcare management, health policy, palliative care, allergy, hospitalist, aerospace medicine...the list is endless!But after all the confusion I have realised that there is a certain way of going about it. First, you must list your priorities; the basis on which you would pick specialties. The length of training, satisfaction, amount of patient contact, amount of procedures, lifestyle, average salaries, the type of patients you see, type of research opportunities, and some more things that you think are relevant to you.Next you must try the Pathway Evaluation Program For Health Professionals. It provides students with current information about 42 specialties based on data compiled from surveys completed by 2,407 practicing physicians. I have tried this at different points of time because with time my ideas of what I want to do and what I feel I would be good at, has changed.Another test helping students pick their specialty, is the Medical Specialty Aptitude Test by University of Virginia. Here, tendencies of students and that of physicians in each specialty is compared.I would also recommend taking a personality test like Carl Jung and Isabel Briggs Myers Personality Test or Advanced Jung/MBTI Personality Test or the newer Big 5/Global 5/SLOAN Test or the IPIP NEO (Long or short version). The purpose of personality testing is to help you increase your self-knowledge. Self exploration of this kind is a useful part of the decision-making process. The results of self-analysis can also be used effectively to narrow the number of specialties to include.The NHS Website correlates your personality with the specialty that suits it. Also, a study done on ~5000 physicians to correlate their Myers Briggs Personality Type and Choice of Medical Specialty.Also, have a look at the Medscape Physician Lifestyle Report of 2012 to get an idea about the lifestyle of doctors in the field of our choice.Once you come down to a few choices, try and do extra rotations/shadowing in that field. You could also do rotations in a specialty that you aren't going to pick so that by the end of the rotation you are no longer hesitant about you you are not picking it.The key is to arrive at a few differentials to diagnose your specialty confusion. If you haven't rotated in them, try to. Finally make a choice, and work hard to achieve it. Whatever path you take, you will be helping patients eventually. I end this post by an inspiring line by Abraham Lincoln, who said "Whatever you are, be a good one."Thank you for reading.Kushal NaikOther recommended sources would be:Canadian Medical Association Journal: The Goo Tolerance Index.BLOG: How To Pick A Medical Specialty. Advice For Medical Students.LANGE BOOK: The Ultimate Guide To Choosing A Medical SpecialityPOWERPOINT: Personality Type & Medical SpecialtiesAssociation of American Medical Colleges - Career Planning and Specialty ChoiceHow to Choose a Medical Specialty ( to choose your medical specialty ( World's Most Sophisticated Algorithm for Choosing a Med Speciality - The Almost Doctor's ChannelPOSTED BY DR. FIZZY ON OCT 24, 2013 IN MED SCHOOLDecisions, decisions… You’ve spent the majority of your life in school working hard for the big prize: the prestigious two letters after your name, “MD”. But, now that your real life dream is creeping closer, you have to make that difficult decision, what kind of MD? This highly accurate algorithm is for the “almost” MDs who are still clueless and could use some help.Personality types and specialist choices in medical students ( Type and Medical Specialty Choice: A New Look at an Old Question ( Should I Choose a Medical Specialty? ( realize that the specialty I choose will largely define my medical career, but there are so many things to consider. How do I decide which specialty will suit me best?Response from Daniel J. Egan, MDDaniel J. Egan, MDAttending Physician, Emergency Medicine Department, St. Vincent's Hospital, New York Medical College, New York, NYThere is something very strange about medical training. Early on, students are forced to make decisions about their future on the basis of relatively minimal information. How should you make this decision? For me, the choice was easy; I had always dreamed of being an emergency physician. But my decision was also based on real-life experience, and I think that is the key element in reaching your decision.Once you reach your third year of medical school, you really begin to practice clinical medicine. You are given a responsibility that is uniquely different from the shadowing experiences you have had during the preclinical years. Every 4-8 weeks, you rotate to a new specialty and learn the subject matter in great detail. During this time, you likely will be trying to impress your residents and attendings, and you will be studying hard so that you can do well on the shelf exam. You also need to pay attention to the subtleties of each specialty to see if it may be a good fit for you.Medical students base a lot of their decision on their clerkship experiences. However, most practicing physicians will tell you that what happens during your medical school rotation is quite different from everyday life in that specialty. For example, in the world of internal medicine, many practitioners spend most of their time in the outpatient setting, forming long-term relationships with their patients. For a surgeon, not every day is spent in the operating room as it is when you are the student. In obstetrics, the labor floor and postpartum evaluations are only a small part of the practice. It is clear that what you see as a student will help you understand what it will be like as a resident in that specialty. But one could argue that even residency may not perfectly emulate a long-term career in that specialty.As you try to decide, I recommend going back to the preclinical years and thinking about role models you may have encountered. Call those people up and ask them if you can spend time with them in their practice. Perhaps there is a subject matter that grabbed your interest and you can find a clinician in that field. As you go through your clinical rotations, identify mentors who may be able to show you what life is like outside the hospital as a physician in that specialty. Also, pay attention to the consultants you encounter. Maybe radiation oncology is something you would love, but your only chance to see what they do was when they consulted on your medicine patient with newly diagnosed spinal metastases. In my opinion, there are many options available but our medical education exposes us to so few.The difficult part for physicians is that when we choose a specialty, we are locked into that field for the rest of our careers, unless we choose to pursue additional training in another field. Unlike nurses or physician assistants, who can change career paths, we are somewhat committed to one area of medicine for the long haul. Obviously, this needs to be a specialty you love. The content of the medicine must excite you. You need to try to find an area in which reading about a topic or treating a patient with a particular disease makes you crave more. Perhaps your interests are limited to the nervous system, for instance. Or, perhaps you have enjoyed all of your clinical rotations and want a field that can incorporate all of them, like family practice or emergency medicine. Or perhaps your clinical years showed you that interacting with patients on an everyday basis is not something you desire, so you might consider radiology or pathology. In addition, many would argue that certain specialties have personalities that are drawn to them. Look at the residents during your clinical rotations and see if they are people with whom you could see yourself spending several years in training.Finally, ask questions. Ask questions not only about the specialty itself but about life outside of work. People love to talk about their own specialty, and frankly, many people in medicine just love to talk about their own work in general. Try to get a sense of what life is like once residency is over. Residents have a unique perspective on things that may be somewhat limited to the lifestyle they experience during training. These are important issues to understand, as you will spend several years of your life in that role, but the rest of your life involves many more years after residency training.Quiz: What's the ideal medical specialty for your personality? - The DO

The Bible said women should not speak in church? Is the Bible misogynistic or should we just ignore this verse because it was written in the past when the world was a lot more sexist?

Neither God, the Bible or the apostle Paul are misogynistic.Let’s see what the Bible says about how husbands are to treat their wives:Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,Eph 5:26 that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,Eph 5:27 so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.Eph 5:28 In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.Eph 5:29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church,Eph 5:30 because we are members of his body.Eph 5:31 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."Eph 5:32 This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.Eph 5:33 However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.1Pe 3:7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.I don’t see anything misogynistic about any of that. I see that Paul by inspiration tells men to have a sacrificial love for their wives and to love them as they love their own bodies.Wisdom is personified as a woman:Pro 1:20 Wisdom cries aloud in the street, in the markets she raises her voice;Pro 8:1 Does not wisdom call? Does not understanding raise her voice?Pro 31:10 An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels.Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain.Pro 31:12 She does him good, and not harm, all the days of her life.Pro 31:13 She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands.Pro 31:14 She is like the ships of the merchant; she brings her food from afar.Pro 31:15 She rises while it is yet night and provides food for her household and portions for her maidens.Pro 31:16 She considers a field and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.Pro 31:17 She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.Pro 31:18 She perceives that her merchandise is profitable. Her lamp does not go out at night.Pro 31:19 She puts her hands to the distaff, and her hands hold the spindle.Pro 31:20 She opens her hand to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy.Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of snow for her household, for all her household are clothed in scarlet.Pro 31:22 She makes bed coverings for herself; her clothing is fine linen and purple.Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates when he sits among the elders of the land.Pro 31:24 She makes linen garments and sells them; she delivers sashes to the merchant.Pro 31:25 Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she laughs at the time to come.Pro 31:26 She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.Pro 31:27 She looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.Pro 31:28 Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her:Pro 31:29 "Many women have done excellently, but you surpass them all."Pro 31:30 Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands, and let her works praise her in the gates.The passages from Proverbs speak very highly of women. Nothing misogynistic to be found here. A good wife is spoken of like a priceless treasure. She is described as wise with strength and dignity. That doesn’t sound like a woman being treated as second class to me.Wives are taught to submit to their husbands. This is not a subservient sort of submission, but a willing submission to a husband who honors his wife and loves her with a sacrificial love. That doesn’t sound misogynistic.Now the radical feminists hate this verse simply because they despise male authority of any kind and are bent on destroying it by any means necessary, no matter how unethical.Women have different, but equally important roles in the Church.Here is a scholarly treatment of the subject by Wayne Jackson:ArticlesAboutContactWoman’s Role in the ChurchBy Wayne JacksonAnd Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (Genesis 2:7).And Jehovah God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him (Genesis 2:18).And Jehovah God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof: and the rib, which Jehovah God had taken from the man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And the man said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man (Genesis 2:21-23).The ancient Jewish Rabbis were fond of saying:God had not formed woman out of the head, lest she should become proud; nor out of the eye, lest she should lust; nor out of the ear, lest she should be curious; nor out of the heart, lest she should be jealous; nor out of the hand, lest she should be covetous; nor out of the foot, lest she be a busybody; but out of the rib, which was always covered (Edersheim 1957, 146).This indicated the modesty that was to characterize her.The divine portrait of woman, as painted on the Biblical canvas, is remarkable indeed. The Genesis narrative distinctly lends itself to the impression that Eve, as the culmination of the creative week, was a climactic jewel in Jehovah’s handiwork.As one wanders down the corridors of Old Testament history he is ever refreshed by encounters with such as Sarah, Rebekah, Leah, Rachel, Miriam, Deborah, Abigail, Ruth, Esther, and other noble women. Thus could the apostle Peter direct attention to those “holy women” who aforetime “hoped in God” (1 Peter 3:5).Nor are the feminine names that adorn the New Testament record less illustrious. The names of those women who ministered to the Master, and later those who served with distinction in the church, have become proverbial.The Plight of Ancient WomanIn order to appreciate the role of New Testament womanhood, one must, by way of contrast, consider the plight of ancient woman as she stood in the world in general.In the antique Greek world, women were considered inferior to men. Aristotle viewed women as somewhere between slaves and freemen. Wives led lives of seclusion and practical slavery.In Rome women enjoyed greater practical freedom, though not legal, than in Greece, but licentiousness was rampant. Chastity and modesty among women were virtually unknown (note Paul’s reference to female homosexuality in Romans 1:26). Wives were truly second-class persons; more honor was shown to a man’s mistress than to his wife.Though the Jewish opinion of womanhood during the time of Christ needed considerable improvement—a male’s morning prayer expressed thanks to God that the petitioner was neither a Gentile, a slave, or a woman—such attitudes were the result of heathen influences.While women were somewhat legally inferior under the law of Moses, practically speaking, wives and mothers in Israel enjoyed the greatest of dignity. Mothers were to be honored (Exodus 20:12) and to rebel against, or show disrespect for, one’s mother was a most serious offense which could be punished by death (Deuteronomy 21:18ff; 27:16).Though the Hebrew woman was under the authority of her father and later of her husband, she enjoyed considerable freedom and was not shut up in the harem . . . . Though women did not ordinarily inherit property, in a case of a sonless home the daughters might inherit (Num. 27). It was a man’s world, but Hebrew law protected woman’s person. Rape was punishable. Harlotry was forbidden (Lewis 1966, 425).Edersheim pointed out that the Hebrew husbandwas bound to love and cherish his wife, to support her in comfort, to redeem her if she had been sold into slavery, and to bury her, on which occasion even the poorest was to provide at least two mourning fifes and one mourning woman. He was to treat his wife with courtesy, for her tears called down Divine vengeance (n.d., 270)If it be objected that the Old Testament practice of polygamy, along with its ease of divorce for men, placed women in an unfavorable status, it may be replied that such matters were tolerated in that “moonlight” dispensation due to the “hardness” of Israel’s hearts (Matthew 19:8), and were to be abolished with the introduction of the “better” system.Womanhood in the New TestamentThe very first chapter of the New Testament portends the status to be accorded women under the law of Christ; there, four women are alluded to in the legal ancestral catalog of the Lord. Though the practice of mentioning women in such lists was not wholly unknown, it is, in the words of A. B. Bruce, “unusual from a genealogical point of view” (1956, 62).Paul affirmed that “God sent forth his Son, born of a woman” (Galatians 4:4). The birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary was the turning point in human history for women.The Savior openly defied the attitudes of his day in his frequent dealings with women. He conversed with the woman at Jacob’s well (a Samaritan at that!)—a thing that shocked even the disciples (John 4:27). He refused to bend to Pharisaical pressures that he shun the sinful woman who anointed and kissed his holy feet (Luke 7:36ff). Godly women were numbered among those who ministered to the Christ (Luke 8:3), some of them accompanying him even to the foot of the cross (John 19:25).Though the roles of specific New Testament women will be discussed later in this presentation, it is important at this point that some general considerations be noted:Men and Women Are Both Subject to Christ’s Marriage LawUnder the law of Christ, both male and female are equally obligated to the marriage ordinance; neither husband nor wife should depart from the other (1 Corinthians 7:11). But should a husband (as in the case of an unbeliever) leave his wife, she is not bound (as a slave) (Arndt and Gingrich 1957, 205) to follow the deserter (1 Corinthians 7:15). And in the case of marital infidelity, the woman is granted the equal privilege of divorce and remarriage (cf. Matthew 19:9; Mark 10:11, 12).Men and Women Are Dependent upon Each OtherInspiration clearly stresses the mutual dependence of men and women in Christ. Paul says, “Nevertheless, neither is the woman without the man, nor the man without the woman in the Lord” (1 Corinthians 11:11). Neither is complete without the other.Men and Women Equal in SalvationIn the matter of salvation, both stand on equal footing before God. Paul says concerning those who have obeyed the gospel: “[T]here can be no male and female; for ye all are one in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:28). Though, as Professor Colin Brown observes:This, however, is not a call to abolish all earthly relationships. Rather, it puts these relationships in the perspective of salvation history. As Paul goes on to say, “And if you are Christ’s then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise” (Gal. 3:29; cf. also Rom. 10:2). All who are in Christ have the same status before God; but they do not necessarily have the same function (1976, 570).Galatians 3:28 is certainly in harmony with 1 Peter 3:7 which makes it clear that women are “joint-heirs of the grace of life.”Women Rule the HouseholdThe New Testament authorizes woman a domain of authority within the home. Younger widows are advised to marry, bear children, and “rule the household” (1 Timothy 5:14).Lenski says:“To rule the house” means as the wife and mother in the home, to manage the household affairs. This is the domain and province of woman, in which no man can compete with her. Its greatness and its importance should ever be held up as woman’s divinely intended sphere, in which all her womanly qualities and gifts find full play and happiest gratification (1961, 676).This does not indicate, of course, that woman’s authority in the home equals the man’s. He is the head of the wife and she is to be willingly in subjection to him (Ephesians 5:22, 23). Yet, he should lovingly allow her the freedom to exercise authority in the management of domestic matters, for God has ordained it.A historian has noted:The way in which the Church began to lift woman up into privilege and hope was one of its most prompt and beautiful transformations from the blight of paganism. Too long in the darkness, she was now helped into the sunlight (Hurst 1897, 146).Such a transformation impressed even the heathen world; Libanius, a pagan writer, exclaimed: “What women these Christians have!”The Divine Subordination of WomanBy divine design, man is to be the “head” of woman—in society, in the church, and in the home (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 5:22-24). This graduation of authority rests on two bases: first, the original constitution of the sexes as created, and, second, woman’s role in the fall.Concerning the former, the Bible teaches:Woman was made as a help for man—not the reverse (Genesis 2:18, 20).Paul wrote: “For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man: for neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man” (1 Corinthians 11:8, 9).And again, “For Adam was first formed, then Eve” (1 Timothy 2:13).As to the woman’s role in the fall, she believed Satan’s lie that she might become as God, and hence, was “beguiled” (Genesis 3:13; 2 Corinthians 11:3) or “deceived” (1 Timothy 2:14); whereas Adam, laboring under no such deception (1 Timothy 2:14), merely sinned due to his weakness for the woman (Genesis 3:12). Accordingly, woman’s subjection was increased after her fall (Genesis 3:16).These facts do not suggest that woman is inferior to man, but they do mean (to those who respect the testimony of Scripture) that she is subordinate in rank to man. It ought to be emphasized that as Christ’s subjection to the Father involved no deprivation of dignity (Philippians 2:5-11), so there is none in woman’s subjection to man. So, as we shall presently observe, because of these historical facts, the sphere of woman’s activity has been divinely circumscribed.Women’s “Lib” or the Word of God?As the saying goes, “From Adam’s rib to Women’s Lib, you’ve come a long way, baby.” Indeed! Some have gone a considerable distance from the word of God!Every significant movement within society will eventually, to some degree, make itself felt in the church. The phenomenon of “women’s liberation” is no exception. There are those in the church who are clamoring that women must throw off the yoke of male domination and claim their rightful place in the body of Christ. Some are suggesting that women can be elders, preachers, and leaders in public worship.There have been two basic approaches to this problem: Some have adopted a completely infidelic stance by asserting that certain “troubling passages” in the New Testament are merely the result of Pharisaic and Rabbinic prejudices reflecting the backward ignorances of the first century, and so, such are not authoritative for today’s church. Others, attempting to assume a more conservative position, claim there is Biblical support for feminine equality in leadership roles.It is, however, the burden of this presentation to show there is no scriptural authority for women elders, women preachers, or women worship leaders.First, it should hardly be necessary to labor over the point that no woman is authorized to serve as an elder, the Bible being so obvious on the matter. The elder is to be the “husband [Greek, aner—a male as opposed to a woman; Arndt and Gingrich, 65) of one wife” (Titus 1:6; 1 Timothy 3:2). The “elder women” (presbuteras) of 1 Timothy 5:2 (cf. Titus 2:3) are simply older women in contrast to the younger (neoterous), and not church leaders.Secondly, the New Testament does not authorize a female (public preaching) ministry; but rather positively prohibits such. Perhaps the most effective way to approach this matter is to examine some of the currently circulated arguments in support of women preachers:New Testament women prophesied (Acts 2:18; 21:9; 1 Corinthians 11:5).It is assumed that prophesying was preaching, hence, women of the first century preached. The word “prophesy” is from two Greek roots, pro (forth) and phemi (to speak). It is a very general term and may mean “to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort” (Thayer 1958, 553; cf. 1 Corinthians 14:3). It can simply suggest the idea of “giving thanks and praising God” (1 Chronicles 25:3). The meaning of the word in a given situation must be determined by the context as well as other information in the Scriptures.Paul limits the extent of a woman’s forth-speaking (teaching, etc.) when he writes: “I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness” (1 Timothy 2:12). The negative conjunction ,oude (nor), here is explanatory in force, revealing that the kind of teaching prohibited by the apostle is that which assumes dominion over the man (Lenski, 563).Certainly women may teach (cf. Titus 2:3); they may, in certain ways, even teach men. There is a reciprocal teaching in singing (Colossians 3:16), and privately, in conjunction with her husband, Priscilla was involved in teaching Apollos (Acts 18:26). But a woman may not assume the position of teacher, with the man subordinated to the role of student, without violating a New Testament command.Was Phoebe a “Deaconess”?On the basis of Romans 16:1-2, some have contended that:Phoebe was a church official (deacon);the church was to “assist her,” implying her authority over the church;she had been a “helper” (prostatis) of many, implying “authority, discipline, over-seeing.”All of this is alleged to show that Phoebe was a preacher-leader in the early church.However:The word diakonos simply means a “servant” (Matthew 23:11; John 2:5, etc.), and any official attachment to the term must be demanded by the context, as in Philippians 1:1 and 1 Timothy 3:8.The fact that the saints were encouraged to “assist” Phoebe did not imply her authority over them. The Greek word paristerni meant to “come to the aid of, help, stand by” (Arndt and Gingrich, 633). When Paul said, “[T]he Lord stood by [pareste] me” (2 Timothy 4:17), he certainly was not asserting that he exercised authority over Christ!The word prostatis (helper) does not necessitate oversight. If so, then Phoebe exercised authority over Paul, for she had been his helper as well as others! Though it is found only here in the New Testament, the term, which can connote simply rendering assistance, is used in a third-century B.C. letter from a son to his father (the verbal form): “[T]here will be nothing of more importance for me than to look after you for the remainder of life, in a manner worthy of you, and worthy of me” (Moulton and Milligan 1963, 551).Euodia and SyntycheIn Philippians 4:2-3, Paul comments that Euodia and Syntyche “labored” with him in the gospel; he calls them, along with others, his “fellow-workers.” Again, the assumption is made that this necessitates an authoritarian position comparable to the apostle’s. However, Christians are said to be “God’s fellow-workers” (1 Corinthians 3:9); obviously, this does not suggest that we are authorized to act as deity! Countless Christian ladies have assisted gospel preachers in numerous ways without ever having become public preachers themselves.Junia an Apostle?It is said that Junia (KJV), a woman, was an apostle and thus certainly occupied a place of authority in the primitive church (Romans 16:7).In the first place, in the Greek text the name is Junian (in the accusative case—the gender of the name not being evident); it could either be Junia (feminine), or more likely, Junias (masculine). Origen, a writer of the third century A.D., considered it a reference to a man (Lightfoot 1957, 96).But secondly, it is not even certain that Junias is here identified as an “apostle.” The phrase, “of note among the apostles” (ASV), is rendered by Zahn as “famed, mentioned with honor in the circle of the apostles,” (418) giving the sense of being well—known by the apostles, rather than actually being an apostle.In the third place, the word “apostle” is used occasionally in the Bible in a nontechnical sense to denote a messenger. Jesus says that “one sent” (apostolos) is not greater than the sender (John 13:16). The word need not imply one who has dominion over another, nor even a preacher.What About Women Prophets in the Old Testament?Some argue that Paul’s admonition that women be in subjection is limited by the expression, “as also saith the law” (1 Corinthians 14:34), and since the law allowed women prophets (as in the case of Miriam, Huldah, and Anna), and even a woman judge (Deborah), so preaching executives are permissible in the church today.However:When Miriam prophesied it was “all the women” that went out after (Exodus 15:20), and there is no evidence that she preached to men.Though Huldah was a prophetess, the solitary record of her prophesying involved some men going to her where they communed privately (2 Kings 22:14ff; 2 Chronicles 34:22ff). It is impossible to find public preaching here.Anna was a prophetess “who departed not from the temple” (Luke 2:36-38). In describing the temple, Josephus (Wars of the Jews 5.5.2) says “there was a partition built for the women” that separated them from the men; this was “the proper place wherein they were to worship.” It cannot be proved that she publicly preached to mixed audiences.Deborah was a prophetess of the hill country of Ephraim, but there is no indication that she publicly proclaimed God’s message to the multitudes; rather, “the children of Israel came unto her for judgment” (Judges 4:5). She gave prophetic judgment as a “mother in Israel” (5:7). The fact that she judged at all is a dramatic commentary on the sickening weakness of the Israelites during this period, and Deborah’s song (chapter five) laments this woeful condition. This was but one of those occasions where Jehovah accommodated his working to Israel’s weaknesses (cf. 1 Samuel 8:9; Matthew 19:8).Is 1 Corinthians 14:33 Applicable Today?Perhaps a further comment regarding 1 Corinthians 14:33 is in order. May this context be used to oppose women preachers?One view contends that it may not. It is alleged that contextual considerations indicate that the meeting contemplated in 1 Corinthians 14 is not comparable to any convened in the church today, and so, these verses are not applicable to church assemblies of today (Woods 1976, 106-112).A more reasonable view that also recognizes that 1 Corinthians 14 has to do primarily with a unique first-century situation, i.e., the reception of spiritual gifts, sees Paul here enunciating essentially the same principle as set forth in 1 Timothy 2:12ff.H. P. Hamann writes:If we have the same writer in both letters writing on the same matter, we have the right to allow one text to explain the other, and especially to let the clearer or more definite throw light on the less precise. So 1 Tim. 2 is the key for the understanding of 1 Cor. 14 (1976, 8).Professor Hamann then parallels the two as in the chart below (click on the chart to enlarge).It is certain that 1 Corinthians 14:33ff lends no support to the notion of women preachers. Such are not sanctioned anywhere in the Scriptures.Men Are Designated Leaders for Worship AssembliesFinally, the New Testament makes it clear that the men are to lead the acts of worship in assemblies of mixed sexes.In 1 Timothy 2:8, Paul instructs that “the men [andras—accusative plural of aner, males only] pray in every place.” Now, woman may certainly pray (1 Corinthians 11:5)—and it would hardly be denied that she could pray in every place; however, there is a sense in which only males may pray in every place. Obviously, it is the leading of prayers in mixed groups that is confined to the man.Commenting upon this verse, a noted Greek scholar has well said, “The ministers of public prayer must be the men of the congregation, not the women” (White 1956, 106). The same principle, of course, would also apply to other acts of public worship.It has become fashionable to assert that Paul’s teaching regarding feminine subordination was aimed at conformity to the culture of his day—somewhat as instructions concerning slavery; and, it is claimed, as the New Testament contained seeds for the abolition of slavery, so, it also contained the seed for woman’s eventual full equality with man in church life.The alleged parallel is simply not valid. In the four major contexts where Paul discusses male-female relationships (1 Corinthians 11:2-16; 14:33b-35; Ephesians 5:22-23; 1 Timothy 2:8-15), the principle of subjection, as well as its application to specific situations, are grounded upon historical facts of Old Testament history, and not upon culture.(Note: Some contend that the principle in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 is binding today, but not Paul’s specific application [Roberts 1959, 183ff], while others believe that both the subjection principle and its specific application are required today [Jackson 1971].]While it is important to study ancient culture so as to better understand the Bible, it must not be an overriding factor in interpretation. To substitute culture for a stated apostolic reason is to turn exegesis into eisegesis (Sproul 1976, 13ff).Concluding RemarksIt is regrettable that such major attention must be given to the negative side of this issue, but such appears to be necessary in view of prevalent error currently being propagated. The New Testament abounds with examples of godly women who, consistent with their assigned roles, served their Master with dignity and honor. Yes, women whose names will still be mentioned with admiration long after the modern-day feminists are gone and forgotten!God’s women make a vital contribution to the kingdom of Christ on earth. Whether they are continuing steadfastly in prayer (Acts 1:14), doing good works and almsdeeds (Acts 9:36), showing hospitality (Acts 12:12; 16:14; 1 Timothy 5:10), teaching the word in harmony with divine authority (Acts 18:26; Titus 2:3, 4), being good wives (Proverbs 31:10ff), rearing godly children (2 Timothy 1:5; 3:14, 15), or accomplishing various other commendable tasks, let us “rise up and call them blessed.” And may their name be Legion!Works CitedArndt, William and F. W. Gingrich. 1967. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press.Brown, Colin, ed. 1976. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology. Vol. 11. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.Bruce, A. B. The Expositor’s Greek Testament. Vol. 1. W. Robertson Nicholl, ed. Grand Rapids, MI: Eardmans.Edersheim, Alfred. Marriage Among The Ancient Hebrews. The Bible Educator. Vol. 4. E. H. Plumptre, ed. London, England: Cassell Petter & Galpin.Edersheim, Alfred. 1957. Sketches of Jewish Social Life in the Days of Christ. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.Hamann, H. P. 1976. The New Testament and the Ordination of Women. The Christian News, March 1.Hurst, John F. History of the Christian Church. Vol. 1. New York, NY: Eaton & Mains.Jackson, Wayne. 1971. A Sign of Authority. Stockton, CA.Lenski, R. C. H. 1961. The Interpretation of St. Paul’s Epistles to the Colossians, to the Thessalonians, to Timothy, to Titus, and to Philemon. Minneapolis, MN: Augsburg Publishing House.Lewis, Jack P. The New Smith’s Bible Dictionary. Reuel Lemmons, reviser. Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Co.Lightfoot, J. B. The Epistle of St. Paul to the Galatians. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.Moulton, James and George Milligan. 1963. The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament. London, England: Hodder and Stoughton.Pratt, D.M., The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, James Orr, ed. (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1939), Vol. V.Roberts, J. W. 1959. Restoration Quarterly, Vol. 3, No. 4, 4th Quarter.Sproul, Robert C. 1976. Controversy at Culture Gap. Eternity, May.Thayer, J. H.. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament. Edinburgh, Scotland: T. & T. Clark.White, Newport J. D. 1956. The Expositor’s Greek Testament. Vol. 4. Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.Woods, Guy N. 1976. Questions and Answers – Open Forum. Henderson TN: Freed-Hardeman College.Zahn, Theodor, Introduction to the New Testament I (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1909), Vol. 1.Scripture ReferencesGenesis 2:7; Genesis 2:18; Genesis 2:21-23; 1 Peter 3:5; Romans 1:26; Exodus 20:12; Deuteronomy 21:18; Numbers 27; Matthew 19:8; Galatians 4:4; John 4:27; Luke 7:36; Luke 8:3; John 19:25; 1 Corinthians 7:11; 1 Corinthians 7:15; Matthew 19:9; Mark 10:11, 12; 1 Corinthians 11:11; Galatians 3:28; Galatians 3:29; Romans 10:2; 1 Peter 3:7; 1 Timothy 5:14; Ephesians 5:22, 23; 1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 5:22-24; Genesis 2:18, 20; 1 Corinthians 11:8, 9; 1 Timothy 2:13; Genesis 3:13; 2 Corinthians 11:3; 1 Timothy 2:14; Genesis 3:12; Genesis 3:16; Philippians 2:5-11; Titus 1:6; 1 Timothy 3:2; 1 Timothy 5:2; Titus 2:3; Acts 2:18, 21:9; 1 Corinthians 11:5; 1 Corinthians 14:3; 1 Chronicles 25:3; 1 Timothy 2:12; Colossians 3:16; Acts 18:26; Romans 16:1-2; Matthew 23:11; John 2:5; Philippians 1:1; 1 Timothy 3:8; 2 Timothy 4:17; Philippians 4:2-3; 1 Corinthians 3:9; Romans 16:7; John 13:16; 1 Corinthians 14:34; Exodus 15:20; 2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chronicles 34:22; Luke 2:36-38; Judges 4:5; 1 Samuel 8:9; Isaiah 1; 1 Corinthians 14:33; 1 Corinthians 14; Song of Songs 1; 1 Timothy 2:8; 1 Corinthians 11:2-16, 14:33-35; Ephesians 5:22-23; 1 Timothy 2:8-15; 1 Corinthians 11:2-16; Acts 1:14; Acts 9:36; Acts 12:12, 16:14; 1 Timothy 5:10; Titus 2:3, 4; Proverbs 31:10; 2 Timothy 1:5, 3:14, 15

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